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How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby zabukowski » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:51 pm

I haven't read whole thread ... in case you didn't mention this yet...

NebulaMan offers two types of input normalization - before processing with Nebula.

1. peak RMS
2. TRUE peak

Normalizing to -18 dbFS peak/max RMS is a very close approximation to 0 dbVU (since VU meter is a different thing than RMS meter). Of course it depends on source material - you can check this in NebulaMan 2 loading your VST VU meter plugin directly after normalization stage.

Peak RMS is not always suitable - for material with hi-peak and low RMS power (drums for example), TRUE peak normalization should be used - value -6db is a good starting point. Again it depends on dynamic range of the material, but in most cases it works nice.

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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby Sheikyearbouti » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:14 pm

Support wrote:http://www.hispasonic.com/foros/biblia-nebula-3-guia-20/456334/pagina32#post3980862

Translation? ;)
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby ngarjuna » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:37 pm

Perhaps I'm missing something vital but I don't entirely understand the very need for batch processing in this manner. If you're a professional engineer then you should already understand what's been pointed out (and was effectively just reiterated by Zab): that a straightforward system of rules are wholly insufficient for gain staging audio in the first place. My clients want, need, expect and receive personal attention to every detail of their production; that's why they pay me. And working in television I can pretty well guarantee my deadlines are as tight as anyone in the business; so yeah, I get wanting to save time but not at the expense of actually doing ones job. And if you're not a professional how many tracks are dealing with that you're so inundated that you can't even address, stage and process everything a track at a time? How much time are you even saving if you have to listen, measure and pre-decide which set of rules to use before you batch process anyway?

I can't help but feel the attempt to automate audio production has done little to enhance the field. I also can't imagine how this goes along with the ethos of Nebula (helping users to return to the days when sound processing mattered and sound quality trumped convenience).
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby thomasd » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:37 pm

Google Chrome can do that for you.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby david1103 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:41 pm

Sheikyearbouti wrote:
Support wrote:http://www.hispasonic.com/foros/biblia-nebula-3-guia-20/456334/pagina32#post3980862

Translation? ;)


https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... edit-text=

along with the great new phrase "You're getting the cock a mess" :lol:
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby zabukowski » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:43 pm

ngarjuna wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something vital but I don't entirely understand the very need for batch processing in this manner. If you're a professional engineer then you should already understand what's been pointed out (and was effectively just reiterated by Zab): that a straightforward system of rules are wholly insufficient for gain staging audio in the first place. My clients want, need, expect and receive personal attention to every detail of their production; that's why they pay me. And working in television I can pretty well guarantee my deadlines are as tight as anyone in the business; so yeah, I get wanting to save time but not at the expense of actually doing ones job. And if you're not a professional how many tracks are dealing with that you're so inundated that you can't even address, stage and process everything a track at a time? How much time are you even saving if you have to listen, measure and pre-decide which set of rules to use before you batch process anyway?

I can't help but feel the attempt to automate audio production has done little to enhance the field. I also can't imagine how this goes along with the ethos of Nebula (helping users to return to the days when sound processing mattered and sound quality trumped convenience).


For example, I often use auto normalizing when receiving all kind of material for mixing which is usually far from optimal.

On the other hand, If everything is perfect from the start and you have control over it, there is no need for additional normalizing etc. So i am trying to use the right medicine for the specific problems :)
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby ngarjuna » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:51 pm

zabukowski wrote:...
For example, I often use auto normalizing when receiving all kind of material for mixing which is usually far from optimal.

On the other hand, If everything is perfect from the start and you have control over it, there is no need for additional normalizing etc. So i am trying to use the right medicine for the specific problems :)

You're right, Zab, I should have made this distinction:

I think it's a poor practice to let batch processes make decisions for you. Once you've made a decision it's clear that there are cool tools to facilitate such choices. So my criticism is not that such tools exist but rather how we try to use them to replace decision making. If you have to batch process everything 20dB to make it usable that's a lot different than using normalization to decide how hard to drive any particular Nebula instance. To me, anyway.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby david1103 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:53 pm

ngarjuna wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something vital but I don't entirely understand the very need for batch processing in this manner. If you're a professional engineer then you should already understand what's been pointed out (and was effectively just reiterated by Zab): that a straightforward system of rules are wholly insufficient for gain staging audio in the first place. My clients want, need, expect and receive personal attention to every detail of their production; that's why they pay me. And working in television I can pretty well guarantee my deadlines are as tight as anyone in the business; so yeah, I get wanting to save time but not at the expense of actually doing ones job. And if you're not a professional how many tracks are dealing with that you're so inundated that you can't even address, stage and process everything a track at a time? How much time are you even saving if you have to listen, measure and pre-decide which set of rules to use before you batch process anyway?

I can't help but feel the attempt to automate audio production has done little to enhance the field. I also can't imagine how this goes along with the ethos of Nebula (helping users to return to the days when sound processing mattered and sound quality trumped convenience).


I think in the future everything will be automated and it will be done to an amazing high standard. Right now we are just starting on this. There will be very few jobs done by humans in the future. Either we will all be sitting in the sun drinking beer or the nut jobs will have blow us all up.

Seriously though. I understand what you are saying, but it really depends on exactly what you are doing. Here is an example that has happened to me.

Mastering a compilation album from 15 different bands all totally different volume levels. I want to listen right away to them all to hear what is going on, and also to start playing with Nebula EQ.

1. Load all the tracks into Reaper
2. Normalize to -18dbfs at a press of a button with the SWS extension
3. Stick Nebula on the master bus and start to listen and experiment

I just saved a hell of a lot of work that had no real artistic or technical merit. I will of course adjust everything by hand eventually. Without bringing all the tracks to about the right level Nebula would be distorting all over the place and I would have no headroom to make boosts.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby zabukowski » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:55 pm

ngarjuna wrote:
zabukowski wrote:...
For example, I often use auto normalizing when receiving all kind of material for mixing which is usually far from optimal.

On the other hand, If everything is perfect from the start and you have control over it, there is no need for additional normalizing etc. So i am trying to use the right medicine for the specific problems :)

You're right, Zab, I should have made this distinction:

I think it's a poor practice to let batch processes make decisions for you. Once you've made a decision it's clear that there are cool tools to facilitate such choices. So my criticism is not that such tools exist but rather how we try to use them to replace decision making. If you have to batch process everything 20dB to make it usable that's a lot different than using normalization to decide how hard to drive any particular Nebula instance. To me, anyway.

-
Very well said !!!

Cheers,
Franci
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby RJHollins » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:08 pm

additionally ...

Gain staging is a dynamic procedure.

It starts at the source level recorded. As the signal is processed [eq, fx, etc], levels within the chain need to be monitored/ re-balanced.

The 'standard' is called 'Unity Gain'. What goes IN = what goes out. Once that is established/understood, creative gain structures are then predictable. 'Unity Gain' is still the guide as not every process handles extremes.
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