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Nebula version 1.3.903 released

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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby himhui » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:28 am

himhui wrote:
indelible wrote:Any news about the issues in H******* Mixbus (PC)? Even .903 is not working. I opened a ticket months ago


I don't think Mixbus v2.5 or previous versions support nebula and acqua though it won't crash on mainbus only. Mixbus v3 may get improved but let's see. Ardour 4 is the sample of mixbus v3, it works with nebula(still not recognize nebula dll with different name)and acqua but can't compensate the latency well over around 3000ms per plugin for each track at present.
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby Support » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:54 pm

Sent support tickets in the past that ended up being closed several months ago with no resolution.


R: Incorrect. Not all your support ticket are closed. TECH-0000001141 Audio dropouts using TIMED kernels still open. About TECH-0000000972 and TECH-0000000573 we did not receive response, ticket system send an alert 72 hours after no ticket replay, and then close it.

Went back .839, with it running the way it was supposed to. Well sorta… .839 crashes all of my compressor libraries upon loading, so that kinda makes about $300 worth of libraries not function for oh six months now… Literally it has been six months since I have been able to use a single compressor program in Nebula.


R: Correct due those compressor libraries are not compatible with this version of Nebula due where created with a newer version of NAT.

I get it, they are focused on Nebula 4 and the ACQUA line. Cool, but its NOT cool to have this keep coming up with not a single upgrade to their core line.


R: Incorrect. We have endeavored to maintain compatibility with legacy OSs like OSX 10.6 and 10.7 or Windows XP releasing Nebula with VSTGUI3 UI framework. OSX 10.7 to 10.8 was a big step for OSX 64 bits applications due Apple did not update Cocoa A*I for 64 bits OSX OSs and force every developer to move to Carbon A*I. Downward compatibility was abandoned, thus, in this scenario we recommend to keep a hardware/software balance in customer's computers systems.

- i7 g2/g3 computers should use OSX 10.7. Audio host should run at 32 bits and audio plug-ins should run at 32 bits. Nebula should be installed in legacy mode for VSTGUI3. We recommend to use 1.3.8xx version(s).
- i7 g4/g5 computers should use OSX 10.8*. Audio host should run at 64 bits and audio plug-ins should run at 64 bits.
Nebula should be installed in normal mode (for VSTGUI4). We recommend to use 1.3.9xx version(s).

* Seems OSX 10.10.3 is also stable for 64 bits host/plug-ins.

Cocoa is Apple's native object-oriented application programming interface (A*I) for the OS X operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_%28API%29

Cocoa is Apple's native object-oriented application programming interface (A*I) for the OS X operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_%28API%29
(Read: Cocoa and Carbon.)

That and demoing Honey with it major crackling CPU spikes when turning knobs making it unusable.


R: It is a problem with bad hardware/software balance. Please, read the previous answer. You are trying to run 64 bits applications in a not complete 64 bits OS.

If Nebula 3 does not get these things fixed up, and Nebula 4 comes out with 3 getting no more support.


R: Incorrect.
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby giancarlo » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:23 am

I'll repeat myself again and again


giancarlo wrote:we are moving nebula to a new engine

Also it fixes crackling some user is experiencing on mac osx side and core6.
It should be pointed than a lot of users don't experience issues in core6 and they can load a lot of instances now, but in any case we are working on a better scheduling of threads


to mac osx users: if you experience crackles just set MIXRATECYCLES to 0 (zero). We are moving to a better threading model. This is NOT related to nebula though, this is a nebula thread, so please move to a correct thread.

1.3.903 works pretty well on most of systems. We suggest to downgrade to a previous version if it does not work as expected, this is a common rule in nebula. If a library was created with a new nat and it is not compatible with nebula ask to use a previous nat/nebula to the library developer!

1.3.903 is the latest one. It is pretty NEW, since in our acqua plugins we are running 1.3.959 (and all new releases introduce new features, not bugfixing).
1.3.839 is NOT so much old. But it was buggy on lookahead. Lookahead was fixed because it was crashing on several computers and the result is a slower scheduling which introduces issues in sonar and several other host. Reason why not everyone has issues is just because someone is running new hardware so it goes faster, someone is running a more optimized host.

But here I should be damn clear. 1.3.903 is SLOWER. It is SLOWER because bugfixing made it SLOWER. There was an additional buffer which could lead to crashes, and it was helpful for cpu balancing. But it was the CAUSE of the crash. Lookahead before was NOT working as expected. Lookahead was FIXED, and it makes nebula SLOWER.

Just to use different words, a bug was the REASON for crashes, and it was the reason for the lower cpu load. You can keep the bug, or you can keep the better cpu load. You cannot have both of them. I don't know why reaper apparently works better than sonar, at least some user reported it. We try to support all hosts but performances are different sometimes, especially for high-demanding plugins like nebula. Obviously different hosts have different optimizations. Just to make it clear, we do NOT force affinity threads. We don't mess with threads. We CREATE new threads. I don't have a clue why sonar tries to modify them really, if it does it. I don't know even if it does it.


Now you have different solutions:
- buy a faster pc
- use a different host
- wait for a miracle, which should be a better engine. If we make the engine "faster" it could compensate the lacking of the WRONG buffer we were forced to change in order to support properly look ahead. I'll repeat again: this buffer was increasing the time available for running audio, but it was WRONG: it should be reserved for look ahead purposes. As result of it, look ahead now is correct.
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby NoNameComesInMind » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:46 pm

Hello!

it has probably been taken up before, but if i was to say
investing in Nebula Server, will the upcoming Nebula 4 release be an upgrade for a reasonable price or how is your take on upgrading?

Best,
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby theheliosequence » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:13 am

NoNameComesInMind wrote:Hello!

it has probably been taken up before, but if i was to say
investing in Nebula Server, will the upcoming Nebula 4 release be an upgrade for a reasonable price or how is your take on upgrading?

Best,


I'm also curious about this. Would like to start diving into Nebula Server, but from all I'm reading it looks like there might be no point in owning it once Nebula 4 is out? Giancarlo expressed that Nebula 3 (server) and 4 would be different products but I honestly don't really understand why Nebula 3 Server would continue to exist or why anyone would continue using it if they had both versions. He mentions people might not like the new version (perhaps referring to charging for the upgrade?) and then says the reason to keep Nebula 3 going is "because there are people interested in single configurable instances more than a skinned multi-instance loader. Several users are interested in a fast configurable loader with many affordable libraries, for example."

Is Nebula 4 not going to be a fast configurable loader with many affordable libraries? Perhaps it will have limitations to ensure AAX compatibility that Nebula 3 won't have? Or perhaps 3rd party developers will have to charge more for Nebula 4 libraries because of a more involved, time consuming process?

I'm definitely not trying to be negative, just trying to be smart and figure out the best way to move forward with Nebula without buying the program twice if I ultimately want the best product moving forward.

Here is the full quote from a Gearslutz thread:
Giancarlo:
more or less you'll have a rack of skinned nebulas, exactly as we planned and described 3 years ago. So you can control multiple-instance plugins in a better way. All libraries will be also available in skinned format (even a default one if a skin is missing).
So nebula4 solves an issue we cannot solve in nebula3 today: when you have a module based on multiple instances you will be able to edit each single instance. At the moment nebula3 is based on single instances only, and they are not skinned (unless you use a configuration external tool like nebula setup).

About the tech, today nebula3 server is the only one which shares the new nebula4 engine. Something is supported also in nebula3 pro, but this situation will change after the introduction of Core7. Core7 will be a little surprise.

About the future: when nebula4 will be out we'll remove "nebula3 pro". The actual nebula3 server version will NOT be removed. We'll have only 2 products, nebula3 and nebula4. They will be client/server versions. For the first time in our history the new product will not be a free upgrade, but we'll take in account if you are already a customer for a proper upgrade policy. Nebula4 is not an upgrade of nebula3. It is a completely different product. It is possible the market will not like it, for example (for the same reasons why someone does not like other rack-based products today).

In my mind there is enough space both for nebula3 and nebula4, because there are people interested in single configurable instances more than a skinned multi-instance loader. Several users are interested in a fast configurable loader with many affordable libraries, for example.

Nebula4 will be a new concept/product and I think not all people will like it, so we give a choice. Both nebula3 and nebula4 will share the same engine, so they can be upgraded easily and maintained. All acqua plugins will share also the same nebula3/nebula4 engine and they will be loadable from nebula4, so we can maintain the whole platform easily. Acquas are advanced skinned nebula4 libraries.

About release dates: we planned Nebula4 for march 2016. It was a long journey but the engine was not good enough before. Its tech is already available now in acqua plugins, and Core7 will be available in our server version around october 2015.
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby flipnaut » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:54 pm

Hallo G.,

do developers like Tim or Boschi already use 1.3.959 features and will there be a release for the nebula-server in the next days?

by the way: the concept of neb4 sounds very much "vmr-slateish". I like that concept (but not the lush sound)

Much more importend is if other developers can sample hw and i can buy from them to put their stuff into neb 4. Or will this concept change?
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby Support » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:00 am

In Nebula 1,2,3 customer are able to upgrade the product and load old session with the new product, this will not happen with Nebula4 for a long list of technical reasons. About purchase options will be a discount for old Nebula products but I can not tell you the price.
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby giancarlo » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:30 am

flipnaut wrote:Hallo G.,

do developers like Tim or Boschi already use 1.3.959 features and will there be a release for the nebula-server in the next days?

by the way: the concept of neb4 sounds very much "vmr-slateish". I like that concept (but not the lush sound)

Much more importend is if other developers can sample hw and i can buy from them to put their stuff into neb 4. Or will this concept change?


vmr was announced way later we described nebula4, I'm sorry
First description comes from 2011. Anyway there were no money at that time.
Same concept for 3rd party devs
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby Andrums » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:09 pm

Nothing said about AAX support.
When?
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Re: Nebula version 1.3.903 released

Postby Support » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:09 pm

Andrums wrote:Nothing said about AAX support.
When?


AAX status = under development.
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