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Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like MFC

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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:37 am

Ok guys did some more test. the first test I fucked up cause I swaped the test mixes names so it was really sounding better to my ears with 512 buffer than 2048 or 4096.

I redid the test by rebouncing realtime both version and relisten carefully and really the 512 buffer setting there is an important suble difference. mix is more glued and compressed. which is what I meanly want from a console emu. apart from that its very very close and maybe not to get too hung up with. I guess I can tell higher buffer is fine since you save much more CPU but since im looking for best quality I will render my mix at at least 512 from now on.

cheers
Patrick
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:47 am

OK this is a mix test with both version. one at buffer of 512 and the second at 2048. you can hear a difference. 512 is more controlled, and glued/compressed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vw0cyj7da8ue ... 2.wav?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwnmum4rcm9el ... 8.wav?dl=0

Thank you very much :)
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby kels » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:55 pm

hi,

thanks for those - nice and rich music. I like it.
(I find 512 sounds harsh but it could be a matter of taste)

changing DSPBUFFER always* change program rate, that's why the obvious differences in your mix.
(*haven't checked all libs, obviously)

example: Gyrator :
RTE = 46.43ms @ dspbuffer=2048,4096,8192
RTE = 23.21ms @ dspbuffer=1024
RTE = 11.6ms @dspbuffer=512

example CLC console :
RTE = 23.21ms @dspbuffer=1024,2048,4096,8192
RTE = 11.6ms @dspbuffer=512
and so on ...

as long as RTE doesn't change, I can confirm what I said in post#2, I have perfect cancelation (CLC console) even between 8x2 tracks which indicate that dspbuffer doesn't change the sound unless RTE is affected by this.

Anyway, devs should publish their .xml, it's the only way we could keep track of how things were developped and how they are supposed to sound.

It's been requested for a long time now ...
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:15 pm

kels wrote:hi,

thanks for those - nice and rich music. I like it.
(I find 512 sounds harsh but it could be a matter of taste)

changing DSPBUFFER always* change program rate, that's why the obvious differences in your mix.
(*haven't checked all libs, obviously)

example: Gyrator :
RTE = 46.43ms @ dspbuffer=2048,4096,8192
RTE = 23.21ms @ dspbuffer=1024
RTE = 11.6ms @dspbuffer=512

example CLC console :
RTE = 23.21ms @dspbuffer=1024,2048,4096,8192
RTE = 11.6ms @dspbuffer=512
and so on ...

as long as RTE doesn't change, I can confirm what I said in post#2, I have perfect cancelation (CLC console) even between 8x2 tracks which indicate that dspbuffer doesn't change the sound unless RTE is affected by this.

Anyway, devs should publish their .xml, it's the only way we could keep track of how things were developped and how they are supposed to sound.

It's been requested for a long time now ...


Thanks Kels! I listened to my demos again and you might be right. but it is hard to choose. I will do some more testing just to be sure and really pick what I think sounds best to me. and thanks for the comment on the song :)

cheers
Patrick
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:20 am

OK I listened closely again and 2048 buffer instead of 512 for MFC mixbuses and panner sounds best to me but very very subtle. it might even trick me so I dont think is that much of a big deal.. a good mastering afterward is what will make the mix shine and pop.

cheers
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby nonstandardryder » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:36 pm

Thanks for doing this. Cool track as well, kind of reminds me of classic radiohead. Any chance of getting a third file of the mix dry? Without any console emulation? I think this will help in comparing.

The 512 sounds a bit more compressed, but the 2048 sounds smoother and deeper

It's a tough call because when using these programs your really looking to get the "record ready" sound as quick as possible. Although in my opinion that sound comes in mastering. With that said I think the 2048 would give the mastering process a really smooth and geled mix to work with and add proper final compression.

Thanks for doing this. Any chance of getting a third file of the mix dry. Without any console emulation? I think this will help in comparing.
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:52 pm

Thanks! yes Im used to those Ok Computer Radiohead references ;) its all good. big RH fan and indeed I try to fucking achieve that awesome sonic bliss of this album and so on :) I can post dry but not without the MFC Input on each channel cause they are all bounced.will be hard to do without. I just can remove the 7-8 busses I have + the main master ou (now I use MFC Cine program. a bit more open than the Clean one).

Yes democracy wins hands down with 2048 buffer.which I found odd since it suposed to be the opposite. since program rate gets higher and transient response gets compronised.but im no technical wise. whatever sounds best to delive to mastering. the more natural, pure and open the better :) but still, im gonna be summing all the stems in a nice N**e VR 60 real analogue console before mastering for extra juce since I did all 100% in the box.

cheers
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:57 pm

btw I retweaker some already done mix with the MFC Cine program + some of Tim Petherick Gyrator EQ on some important busses like guitars and vocals and my mixes sky rocket to awesomeness. so exited. when you think you did a good job mixing something and it can always shine better.makes for some never be releasing album... got to let go and just finish the thing instead of reaching for that analog goodness.. its all about the music and the songs after all :)

but great tools.

cheers
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby pleplo » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:58 am

Ok guys just so you know I did some more test with Nebula DSP buffer and Alexb MFC console

I did a test where I put a MFC instance on all tracks of a mix a different DSP Buffer. I tried 128, 512 and 2048. on both MFC Mic Pre and MFC Line In and with blind tests ive choosen the 2048 most of the time. and the most colored one obviously was the Mic Pre not the Line In. but still.

cheers
Patrick
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Re: Does dsp buffer size affect sound of console mixbus like

Postby sfabs » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:54 am

pleplo wrote:Ok guys just so you know I did some more test with Nebula DSP buffer and Alexb MFC console

I did a test where I put a MFC instance on all tracks of a mix a different DSP Buffer. I tried 128, 512 and 2048. on both MFC Mic Pre and MFC Line In and with blind tests ive choosen the 2048 most of the time. and the most colored one obviously was the Mic Pre not the Line In. but still.

cheers
Patrick


When i purchased the Modern flagship series which I use all the time now I asked Alex what was the best DSP setting he recommended. He told me he used 1024 in Nebula, which was good enough for me. He also said higher settings were better for offline processing to avoid "pops and clicks".

Im not suggesting you re-do the mix at 1024! :)

it's certainly in line with your conclusions
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