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How do I know if a preamp/pass-through program is dynamic?

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How do I know if a preamp/pass-through program is dynamic?

Postby pleplo » Tue May 20, 2014 10:17 am

Hey guys I'm a now advanced Nebula user for some time. just still wondering. when I use a third party like an good EQ. as I now understand. when they capture it they capture only the curves, phase and harmonic distortion right? wish is the main part of a analog eq? they dont sample dyanmics too (transient response and compression behavior) cause its too much work? so they also sample just the preamp/pass-trough/eq bypassed hardware to get the dynamic, eq curve and harmonic disortion? im still a bit confused. I know Cupwise release those unique nebula filters that dont need preamp cause he took the time to sample with dynamic? how can I know when to use the preamp with an eq band to have full character? how can you know when a program has dynamic/transient smoothing and compression behaviors? I still dont understand why nebula tape program only give us the curve and harmonics but not the compression and transient softning when a program like Cupwise Yourei filter kind do them all? sorry for lots of questions. it will help me choose the right programs when mixing and mastering to see really what is going on. also like to know if it makes a difference to place the line program before of after the eq program ..I also been checking lots of program with Vst Analysers to see what is going on :)
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Re: How do I know if a preamp/pass-through program is dynami

Postby giancarlo » Tue May 20, 2014 11:09 am

someone sampled also dynamics inside the same model, but in general it is not possible due to the high number of samples (and time) required. We are creating acqua plugins based on chaining of dynamic and moltisample eq models. But in general, if you have enough resources, you could mix them at sampling session time.
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Re: How do I know if a preamp/pass-through program is dynami

Postby jorismak » Tue May 20, 2014 11:27 am

Somebody correct me if wrong here, but as I know it the Nebula engine must be kinda in 'a mode'. So it's either in 'compression' mode, 'reverb' mode, 'time-variant' mode (chorus/flanger and the stuff) or 'preamp' mode (which is used for EQ as well I guess).

So if you want to sample the compression behaviour of something, you can't really capture the reverb-effect of the same unit (if it has it :P). Thats why sometimes 3rd party developers sample the unit multiple times in different ways to get the complete effect. Gemini-audio's G76 compressor with a special non-compressing 'harmonics' program comes to mind.

So, to me, something is a compressor if it has a threshold slider.
It is a reverb if it has a 'DRY' and/or 'FX' slider.
I never used time-variant actually :S. No idea how it looks.
And the rest is preamp / EQ.

Now, in the big 'LCD' section of Nebula you'll see a bunch of numbers (like 'input L' and 'output L' to make clear what the current input signal and output signal is doing).
There is a value there 'DNM SEL' (dynamic selection?) that specifies the program is dynamic (as in, it responds to your input volume/level). DNM-SEL says which dynamic-sampling Nebula is currently using.

Programs that are not captured dynamically (just a single sine-sweet at one level, instead of a bunch of sine-sweeps at different levels) there will be no 'DNM SEL' value showing. And thus will respond the same no matter what your input level is (but those programs are rare to be honest).
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Re: How do I know if a preamp/pass-through program is dynami

Postby Cupwise » Wed May 21, 2014 12:55 pm

jorismak wrote:Somebody correct me if wrong here, but as I know it the Nebula engine must be kinda in 'a mode'. So it's either in 'compression' mode, 'reverb' mode, 'time-variant' mode (chorus/flanger and the stuff) or 'preamp' mode (which is used for EQ as well I guess).

So if you want to sample the compression behaviour of something, you can't really capture the reverb-effect of the same unit (if it has it :P). Thats why sometimes 3rd party developers sample the unit multiple times in different ways to get the complete effect. Gemini-audio's G76 compressor with a special non-compressing 'harmonics' program comes to mind.

So, to me, something is a compressor if it has a threshold slider.
It is a reverb if it has a 'DRY' and/or 'FX' slider.
I never used time-variant actually :S. No idea how it looks.
And the rest is preamp / EQ.

Now, in the big 'LCD' section of Nebula you'll see a bunch of numbers (like 'input L' and 'output L' to make clear what the current input signal and output signal is doing).
There is a value there 'DNM SEL' (dynamic selection?) that specifies the program is dynamic (as in, it responds to your input volume/level). DNM-SEL says which dynamic-sampling Nebula is currently using.

Programs that are not captured dynamically (just a single sine-sweet at one level, instead of a bunch of sine-sweeps at different levels) there will be no 'DNM SEL' value showing. And thus will respond the same no matter what your input level is (but those programs are rare to be honest).


i'm not sure about the dnm sel thing showing up being a perfect indicator of whether a program has dynamics or not (actually i dont think its a good one). i do know that programs without dynamics are far from rare, since almost all eq programs don't have them. most use the approach G mentioned where you have a separate program with the dynamics, that you use together with the EQ program(s).

to the OP, there isn't really any solid indicator, except that the sample count of an eq/filter with dynamics included is usually going to be much more than the ones that don't have those. of course that depends on how many harmonics there are also, so even that isn't a perfect indicator. but all the dynamic EQ/filter programs i've made, or at least the full kern count versions, i'm pretty sure are over 1,000 samples.

consider the simple fact that, however many samples you have in an EQ program without dynamics, that's based on one tone sweep per eq position sampled, so if you add dynamic steps to that, say for a total of 20, you'd have to have 20 times the samples. everything gets way more complicated. cpu use, ram use, and load times also go up.

one thing i can say, is that i'm pretty sure any program with dynamics will have to have an entry in the 'edit' 'fun' page that uses one of the 4 envelope followers, so it would say 'efv1' or 'evf3' etc. i'm pretty sure you can't have working dynamics without that being there. it being there, on the other hand, doesn't prove for sure that there are dynamics.
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