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Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Read!

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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby david1103 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:20 am

The real mystery seems to be if you turn off all the distortion kernels and make it clean it STILL happens?! Even on a non dynamic program? :shock:
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:22 am

david1103 wrote:The real mystery seems to be if you turn off all the distortion kernels and make it clean is STILL happens?! Even on a non dynamic program? :shock:


you could do this even with the problamatic dynamic program and simply turn of dynamics in the fun page or evf page
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:44 am

turning off the dynamics doesn't stop it.

raising the prog rate up does.
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:45 am

ah great so it's a aliasing problem as G said?
Well I guess it's more clear now if it is?

It's interesting becuase if that is the case I would of thought it would be far worse aliasing with dynamic changes.

Edit , to be honest I'm struggling to recreate this sub thing at the moment on a high kernel preset of mine

Just out of curiosity, what speed is the program rate to make it do that?
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby SWANG » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:16 am

ot: cupwise hit 660 posts in this thread! coincidence or fate???

...

...


...is this thing on? :?




...back to topic...
ok, bye!!!
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:19 am

the standard preamp prog rate is around 20ms, and for the 660 program in question i lowered it down to 2ms, so i guess at least in that case i was wrong about it not being due to a tweak, because if i raise it up to the standard 20ms it goes away.

but the poster who said that my SHQ version doesn't do it also seems to be right. it uses .750ms prog rate and timed mode

so as far as i'm concerned, i'll be releasing an update that just raises to prog rate for the non-shq versions of those programs, up to standard times, as soon as i get time. anyone using those programs can either raise the time themselves and save the programs with the higher time (edit, glob, then make sure rate S says ON, then raise rate to whatever the setting is around 22ms.)

then i'll make my way through all of my older stuff, and try to see which things cause this, and release similar updates (this will take time). i don't think the problem is super common though so i don't expect a lot of updates to be needed. i could be wrong.

edit- oh but i dont know if this means that it only happens with this or that prog rate. it might depend on other things about the program as well.
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:39 am

This is kinda like what I was suggesting on my first post. About fast program rates having this problem and the only way around to keep the fast rates is to have the fine tune program rate tweak 0.750 at 96khz or 0.725 at 44.1 , even then it's not perfect but better.
Interesting that your using that tweak for this. I am using it on Dynamic eq's etc. I posted it over on the working with nebula threads.

the fine tune tweak seems to be pretty consistent to me...

Although I did think that this tweak was only needed on dynamic stuff! you live and learn.
Cupwise wrote:he standard preamp prog rate is around 20ms, and for the 660 program in question i lowered it down to 2ms, so i guess at least in that case i was wrong about it not being due to a tweak, because if i raise it up to the standard 20ms it goes away.

but the poster who said that my SHQ version doesn't do it also seems to be right. it uses .750ms prog rate and timed mode

so as far as i'm concerned, i'll be releasing an update that just raises to prog rate for the non-shq versions of those programs, up to standard times, as soon as i get time. anyone using those programs can either raise the time themselves and save the


Edit- so I'm guessing this is solved then?
Last edited by Tim Petherick on Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:32 am

yeah but i thought you were talking about the higher frequency ringing. you said you haven't managed to reproduce this particular artifact on your side yet didn't you?

anyway it turns out that the fine tuning of prog rate seems to completely fix this problem, while it only helps some with the higher frequency ringing problem. i've used the .750ms rate for my shq stuff for a good while now.

anyway, yeah i don't understand why the prog rate would do anything at all if a program isn't using dynamics or any kind of modulation of the samples, but it seems to...

actually i guess it's just because it's still dividing the audio coming into nebula, into chunks equal to that prog rate, so prog rate still could have some affect even without any modulation.

edit- another thing, i'm still pretty sure (like 90%) that this problem comes from the harmonics, while the higher frequency one comes from the 1st, clean kern.
Last edited by Cupwise on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:38 am

Yes it seems that the distortion or artifact is masked by a the same frequency in the tweak. Like doubling in frequency because of the doubling in Program rate from 0.045 and up , each point is ok when divided down by half. like 0.375

Cupwise wrote:yeah but i thought you were talking about the higher frequency ringing. you said you haven't managed to reproduce this particular artifact on your side yet didn't you?

yeah but it turns out that the fine tuning of prog rate seems to completely fix this problem, while it only helps some with the higher frequency ringing problem. i've used the .750ms rate for my shq stuff for a good while now.

anyway, yeah i don't understand why the prog rate would do anything at all if a program isn't using dynamics or any kind of modulation of the samples, but it seems to...

actually i guess it's just because it's still dividing the audio coming into nebula, into chunks equal to that prog rate, so prog rate still could have some affect even without any modulation.
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Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:41 am

have you reproduced this 'detuned' artifact? or are you talking about the ringing? to me they seem like two separate things..
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