Login

Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Read!

Tips & tricks, working results, technical support

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby mathias » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:22 am

i would call it a distortion artefact, maybe harmonic kernels driven to resonance on specific frequencies.
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
mathias
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:25 am
Location: South-West Germany

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby mathias » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:23 am

i was able to recreate the resonating artefact with the demo1 of the 660 on your "without" sample.
a bit quieter, but still audible.
in this case it seems to be related to the program.
it is related to the attack time here. when i set the attack higher, the artefacts go away. setting it to 10 ms was enough to make them dissappear.

i don't know if you have the attack available on the passtrough program, when you do, set it higher and all is good. it doesn't change the sound, when compression is not happening.

best,
mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
mathias
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:25 am
Location: South-West Germany

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:13 am

so i've been doing some testing

* it's not a problem with this or that specific library having some kind of 'defect', imo. but i guess it would come down to semantics. i'm thinking it has to do with how nebula handles harmonics, and that programs with higher harmonics cause it to happen.

* it doesn't have anything to do with dynamics (so it can happen with static EQs)

* it has to do with the sampled harmonics

* you can hear it best with programs with high level harmonics

* if you disable the harmonics in 'kern' page by reducing number of them to 1 (clean), it completely goes away

edit- ok actually i seem to be wrong on a few of those points. it doesn't seem to go away when you switch to 1k clean on kern page... i'm still pretty sure it's coming from the harmonics though, as weird and contradictory as that might sound.

also, the attack/release time doesn't seem to affect it over here. you can adjust that by going into edit/evf page.

edit again- ok sometimes it does go away when switching to 1k, sometimes it doesn't, which is weird and confuses me, but i still think it's coming from the harmonics.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby scene » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:41 pm

Tim, you're the only developer who actually responded to my query. I didn't mention it, but about a year ago I also sent a message to Michael Angel (cdsm) and AITB. I didn't hear back from them.

The point is that "real" equipment does not produce this type of d-effect. I have a good selection of tube/transformer based unites and I can stuck them up and drive them anyway I want and they would never sound like that.

As I said it is very easy to hear this "artifact" on any monophonic, acoustic sound.

P.S Sorry for repeating myself
scene
User Level II
User Level II
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby kels » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:47 am

Hi,

Here, the problem disapear completely if you use the 660 Pass-Through C_SHQ version of the preset.

If you switch the 660 Pass-Through C (non SHQ version) to pure time mode, kernels are limited to something like 10ms in that case, seems to help but that ringing robot fx occurs at a higher frequency anyway, less obvious at first)
kels
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:43 am

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Cupwise » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:52 pm

that's weird about the shq thing. i'll have to look into that. anyway, i think i can fix this problem on my end, although i think the most ideal solution would be having it fixed in nebula somehow, because it clearly doesn't only happen with my 660 programs. i think anything with higher distortion is a likely offender... but anyway i'll mark it down on my list of things to update when i can.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby scene » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:34 pm

In meanwhile, is there a workaround that would still allow us to use Nebula in production?

So far, switching to 1k kern and changing the attack time only shifts the problem without solving it.
From what I noticed, it is also contend dependent artifact. Some algo plugins can also crap out when the tonal character of audio is changing; for example, the brainworx limiter can be set to work fine during verses, but it would go completely bananas in choruses even though dynamically the chorus part could be exactly the same as the verse.

I always thought that the strongest side of Nebula is the richness and fluidity of the "harmonic", hardware like coloring it imparts and so far, some of the programs that meant to do exactly that - doing actually something totally undesirable.
Last edited by scene on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scene
User Level II
User Level II
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby SWANG » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:18 pm

i hope that i've been lucky enough that these artifacts never showed up in my mixes. i'm paranoid now and feel like i should go back and listen to some old mixes to see. then again, if neither i nor anyone else noticed, i guess it doesn't matter now. will pay attention in the future though...
Last edited by SWANG on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ok, bye!!!
User avatar
SWANG
Vip Member
Vip Member
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:31 am
Location: new york

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby scene » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Don't worry SWANG! As I mentioned previously, I pointed this artifact to some engineers that are infinitely more experienced than I, and have far more advanced monitoring systems compare to mine, and still - it took me good 15 minutes of continues demonstration between unaffected and affected files before they could hear it.


Surprisingly, now that they know what to listen for, they are all saying how ear splitting, painfully obvious this artifact is. My singer, whose hearing is even more acute, can also hear some of that stuff in a few EQ libraries, and I can't hear this d-effect in those programs at all. I tried to confuse her many times but to no avail -she always points to the files that she originally identified as faulty.
Last edited by scene on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scene
User Level II
User Level II
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: Unwanted detuning defect in Nebula libraries: Please Rea

Postby Tim Petherick » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm

Here's a little tip I had made for faster program rate distortions.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26085&p=57273&hilit=sweet+spot+dynamic+g#p57273

I don't know if that will help.

maybe it's not the same artifact....
User avatar
Tim Petherick
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Bath , Uk

PreviousNext

Return to Working with Nebula

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest