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Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio tool

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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby madigwann » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:40 am

richie43 wrote:Ok, at least I fully understand that I simply don't agree with you. I respect your viewpoints, but if I was to be as assertive as you, I'd say that you are completely wrong in your assertions (about Nebula AND Kemper...lol). But I won't, because you can like and dislike whatever you want. Like I said earlier, I demoed a Kemper in my own space, I borrowed one for over a week to test it fairly. I honestly didn't like it. It was good, but not great in my opinion. I'd even go as far to say that I felt about it the same way you feel about Nebula. I felt like the reputation was false and idealistic, but the sound was ok, but not convincing enough for me to buy one ever. Not until they improve the technology.But you know what? That's my opinion based on my own ears. So I won't use one, it's that simple. The first impressions were great, but after a few days I felt like every profile sounded 2 dimensional and fake. You may or may not experience the same thing, so I hope that you have a return period before you throw your money into it.

But I don't see Nebula as the "cannot cannot" that you do, so I'll continue to use it. My money (and time and energy) are not wasted on the Nebula products, I am very grateful for the technology, the tools, and this helpful (and normally pretty positive and constructive) community of users and devs that seem to care about how it all goes.

Feel free to check back here in 5 years. I, unlike you, believe that the product and the users will still be around. But even if it's not, I bet you will have had more technical issues with your Kemper than I will with my emulated hardware. Ha ha, I got you there! By the way, a studio here in Minneapolis that i do session work for sometimes has (or had...I can verify that in a few days when I am there) a Kemper has started bringing out the real amps as of late. The Kemper is about 3 months old, has never been out of the studio (so no gigs, no transporting, etc), and has already been serviced twice. I am not trying to insult you, I'm being honest and truly hope that if you spend that much on new technology, pay a little extra for a service warrantee if one is available. I'd be super nervous to rely on that as a gigging amp.


We really don't hear the same way... I don't comment on hardware reliability here as I don't even own a kemper myself. All I say is that is a very promising technology like nebula, but at least it is simple to use, gives you great results immediatly, it lets you sample any boutique setup you may put your hands on, and IT SOUNDS GREAT ! Sorry but I hear it sounding great, especially with the huge dynamic range the device has and the way it responds to a guitar playing. Coming from subtle overdrive to heavy distortion just by picking the strings is awesome and sublim. Go ask nebula to have a usable dynamic range lol... Again I'd prefer a company like kemper or any company to come with such technology and perfect it for us music makers. I think it's the future of digital music making. When I bought Nebula I had already read forums and took information. I was aware of the flaws and limitations. I bought it even though, for supporting development of the technology. And i say again : Acustica audio is UNABLE to go further. It has been long enough since fair users who trusted and believed are left with the same crap. If they can't give us a version 4 and version 5 and version 6 and so on then let it to someone else to do it ! Customers aren't sheeps...
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby richie43 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:52 am

madigwann wrote:We really don't hear the same way... I don't comment on hardware reliability here as I don't even own a kemper myself. All I say is that is a very promising technology like nebula, but at least it is simple to use, gives you great results immediatly, it lets you sample any boutique setup you may put your hands on, and IT SOUNDS GREAT ! Sorry but I hear it sounding great, especially with the huge dynamic range the device has and the way it responds to a guitar playing. Coming from subtle overdrive to heavy distortion just by picking the strings is awesome and sublim. Go ask nebula to have a usable dynamic range lol... Again I'd prefer a company like kemper or any company to come with such technology and perfect it for us music makers. I think it's the future of digital music making. When I bought Nebula I had already read forums and took information. I was aware of the flaws and limitations. I bought it even though, for supporting development of the technology. And i say again : Acustica audio is UNABLE to go further. It has been long enough since fair users who trusted and believed are left with the same crap. If they can't give us a version 4 and version 5 and version 6 and so on then let it to someone else to do it ! Customers aren't sheeps...

Ok then.... So don't use Nebula anymore. Just understand that while the Nebula technology is not perfect (NOTHING is though), don't fool yourself by thinking that you are some kind of representative for the masses of people who also think the same way. I am trying to understand your views and maybe even help you enjoy Nebula a bit more, but have you noticed that no one has jumped in and echoed your extreme distaste for it? I am sorry that you are this dissatisfied, but I don't think your opinions are shared by the majority of users. Not everyone is as positive and hopeful as me, but I tend to be more constructive than destructive. You still have not had much constructive comments, only how crappy you think it is. I can't share your viewpoints, so maybe I bow out now. I also am perfectly happy with their speed of development, especially because I do understand how complex this is. It does not do guitar amp distortion, but who cares? And it will never replace all hardware, but who cares? Nebula is a tool, use it or don't. Simple.
Good luck and like I said before, I hope that you make great music and can feel good about the choices of tools you spend money on. Cheers.
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby richie43 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:58 am

Another gripe about the Kemper and how it profiles: To capture and save a profile for Kemper, don't you save the captured audio or sample through whatever you mic with? If so, you are not getting a profile of the amp only, but it is an amp with whatever mic you use. So when you go and play one of these profiles, and maybe mic it up for recording or a show, aren't you basically mic-ing an already mic-ed sound? That seems short-sighted and silly to me. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I'm right, no matter how good the technology is in the product, the capturing and using user-made profiles seems a bit amateurish to me.
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby madigwann » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:13 am

richie43 wrote:Another gripe about the Kemper and how it profiles: To capture and save a profile for Kemper, don't you save the captured audio or sample through whatever you mic with? If so, you are not getting a profile of the amp only, but it is an amp with whatever mic you use. So when you go and play one of these profiles, and maybe mic it up for recording or a show, aren't you basically mic-ing an already mic-ed sound? That seems short-sighted and silly to me. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I'm right, no matter how good the technology is in the product, the capturing and using user-made profiles seems a bit amateurish to me.


I really can't comment on this, as I am not a specialist of the kemper profiling amp. But I really wish Nebula were so easy to use and gratify you with instant satisfaction like that device does. And from what I understand, several companies around give you an ever growing choice of totally professionally made profiles that give you THAT sound you're after, be it metallica or any other classic setup...And they're not even expensive for what you get... You have to hear it to believe it ! No other plug or hardware emulation comes close ! Again it's not a contest between Nebula against Kemper. I only wish Nebula were as mature as this 'amateurish' device. Good luck to you too making music with nebula...
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby madigwann » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:17 am

richie43 wrote: So when you go and play one of these profiles, and maybe mic it up for recording or a show, aren't you basically mic-ing an already mic-ed sound? That seems short-sighted and silly to me. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I'm right, no matter how good the technology is in the product, the capturing and using user-made profiles seems a bit amateurish to me.


Once you have your profile, you haven't to mic it again... You can just send out from the profiling amp to your console or to whatever speaker you want it to play through. Just plug your guitar in and play, that's how I understand it...
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby richie43 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:31 am

Yes, but if you are playing that profiled sound out of that speaker of choice, like you said, and you are either playing live or recording that speaker, you will need to be micing that.That's what i'm saying, you suddenly have a redundancy going on- you are micing the sound of a mic-ed amp. Not a huge deal, no doubt. And if you like the sound, it doesn't matter. All I am pointing out is if you are going to call out points that a company is not really going the extra mile, and then using a product like Kemper as an example of a better way to do things (or a better development, whatever), then I think you need to look harder. Depending on what model of Kemper you are talking about, the cheapest I have seen them here in the USA is from $2,000 all the way up to $2800 USD. That's alot of money for basically a modelling amp that still needs more power and a speaker to run it through (Yes, you can run it into a PA, but we guitarists love to feel the cab moving air!). So for them to ask that kind of dollar and still be what I consider sloppy (or a little schmaltzy) with the methods of capturing and using the profiles, I'd say that product is a more dubious value than any Nebula product. Over $2000? Whatever. I am not trying to sway you on another product, I just would never spend my money on that.
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby richie43 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:34 am

And for the record, I do feel like Nebula is more mature than that. Acustica is honest and realistic regarding the development, the short-comings, and their plans for future development. And I am sure there is much that is personal, as I found Nebula simple to use, and enjoyable in my work. My ears would never go back to my pre-Nebula work, thank you.
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby madigwann » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:52 am

richie43 wrote:Yes, but if you are playing that profiled sound out of that speaker of choice, like you said, and you are either playing live or recording that speaker, you will need to be micing that.That's what i'm saying, you suddenly have a redundancy going on- you are micing the sound of a mic-ed amp. Not a huge deal, no doubt. And if you like the sound, it doesn't matter. All I am pointing out is if you are going to call out points that a company is not really going the extra mile, and then using a product like Kemper as an example of a better way to do things (or a better development, whatever), then I think you need to look harder. Depending on what model of Kemper you are talking about, the cheapest I have seen them here in the USA is from $2,000 all the way up to $2800 USD. That's alot of money for basically a modelling amp that still needs more power and a speaker to run it through (Yes, you can run it into a PA, but we guitarists love to feel the cab moving air!). So for them to ask that kind of dollar and still be what I consider sloppy (or a little schmaltzy) with the methods of capturing and using the profiles, I'd say that product is a more dubious value than any Nebula product. Over $2000? Whatever. I am not trying to sway you on another product, I just would never spend my money on that.

Would you pay 2000$ for Nebula if it was a mature technology that does what it pretends to do easily ? I personnally would. 2000$ to put you in a league that is the culprit of the industry is nothing for a true Producer. If you're serious about making music, you'll pay far more than 2000$ just for decent preamps and mics. Having preamp emulation with nebula is a joke. You can't just record through crappy hardware, turn on your computer,launch nebula and think it will suddenly become a Professional polished track... you'll always need good hardware ! period. As to Kemper, plug in our guitar, play that profile and record it directly out of the profiling device, and you have your sound. No need to mic anything more. In conclusion, I wish Nebula would improve and allow users to sample their own hardware easily, have a decent dynamic range, a manual, a good interface, and be more accurate... I doubt that will happen one day. That software hasn't even really improved since version 2...Server version is nothing more than pro version with a slightly better memory management (I even doubt it really works). What a joke !
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby RJHollins » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:14 am

Alright ... I was curious, went to the Kemper site.

That's what this is all about ... a guitar amp simulator :shock:

If THAT was what Nebula was for ... I wouldn't even be here at this forum [no offense to guitarist].

If NEBULA only offered a platform for the equalizer from N**e, S*L, Pultec, A*I, Massenburg, etc with the sonic character of equipment I used everyday for nearly 30 years ... I'd be satisfied. And really, I have to say that I'm pleased. Can it get better ... I hope so ! Have we heard improvements in libraries from 3rd party Devs. Yes we have. Can it get better ... I think we all hope so.

I didn't even mention the tape libraries from CDS, or the new generation of compressors ... or the 'tone' libraries from Henry or CDS to be used with algo front-ends.

From my perspective and ears, I've yet to hear any digital emulation of guitar amps that matches the real thing. I WILL preface that in that the guitar techs that setup these amps, or the top session players that worked the session ALL had great sounding guitars, basses, and amps ... so maybe not fair to compare. But that is what I'm used too.
Granted, there ARE styles of music that these digital units will work alright, and maybe for live gigs. But everyone that I've heard on live gigs is spotted. Do the listening public care or know ... maybe ... maybe not. But my 'job description' include more than Joe/Jane Public's assessment of quality.

I sure hope the technology continues to advance. Why not.

I'll say it again, though ... they are only the tools.
YMMV.
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Re: Nebula is becoming more a bullshit than a real studio to

Postby richie43 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:24 am

madigwann wrote:Would you pay 2000$ for Nebula if it was a mature technology that does what it pretends to do easily ? I personnally would. 2000$ to put you in a league that is the culprit of the industry is nothing for a true Producer. If you're serious about making music, you'll pay far more than 2000$ just for decent preamps and mics. Having preamp emulation with nebula is a joke. You can't just record through crappy hardware, turn on your computer,launch nebula and think it will suddenly become a Professional polished track... you'll always need good hardware ! period. As to Kemper, plug in our guitar, play that profile and record it directly out of the profiling device, and you have your sound. No need to mic anything more. In conclusion, I wish Nebula would improve and allow users to sample their own hardware easily, have a decent dynamic range, a manual, a good interface, and be more accurate... I doubt that will happen one day. That software hasn't even really improved since version 2...Server version is nothing more than pro version with a slightly better memory management (I even doubt it really works). What a joke !

I have many thousands invested in my studio, and I see that you are merely wanting someone to agree with you. I am not that person, I have seen major improvements in the Nebula engine, in the libraries, and in the customer service. I think I need to bow out for real this time, you are obviously not interested in any type of positive conversation, you are bent on complaining, making noise, and generally being a real unpleasant dud. I am sorry that your experience is not as great as mine, but I have some work todo. For clients. Doing audio with my studio, with Nebula, and all of my other various tools that I have selected because they work for me. I don't concern myself with whatever works or doesn't work for anyone else. For that matter, I have never owned ProTools, an ilok, and love my Reaper-Nebula-hybrid DAW studio. I suppose I am not a "real" audio person now..... I hope that you figure out how to be happier, I'd hate feeling like that. Anyway, feel free to keep ranting, I'm done unless you actually want to engage in some constructive and intelligent discourse. Cheers.
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