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Timed mode how much ms?

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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby Scottxx » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:07 am

Guys. I don't want to complicate things. The problem is that TIMED mode sounds far better to my ears. That's it.

So, when you hear something that makes your great sound even better, you want to know how to get the best of it.
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby RJHollins » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:09 am

I too can confirm 'bass loss' ...

There are several libraries that I have running @ TIMED setting. I usually check the 'ms' length of the original first, and then match that length when I switch to TIMED.

I've also [briefly] experimented with higher than original settings. CPU drain usually brings me back to equaling the original value.

Changing to TIMED mode is interesting ... some libraries sound better, or different ... and I'll sometimes prefer to use it that way. Other libraries don't yield a significant improvement, or are not worth the CPU hit [cause I may need several instances, so not really practical].

So, at a minimum, I find matching original Ms length to be a 'minimum' target ... and as 'David' documented on his tutorial [Web Site], I only use one of the 'EVEN' or 'ODDs' ... not both.
anyway ... just my 1/2 cent ;)
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby Scottxx » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:15 pm

For example, in normal mode in a Cabinet program its says 2 ms on first Kernel; going in TIME mode without touching ms. Do you say it is enough? I think just going to TIMED without touching ms the sound is improved.
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby Tim Petherick » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:34 pm

I came to the assumption that

50ms = accuracy down to 20hz
100ms = accuracy down to 10hz

basically 1sec =1hz cycle 500ms=2hz cycle and so on

but you don't have to worry about it if the frequency response is flat down there. That's why most compressors still sound good at 10ms. If you have a eq you need it to be above 50ms really.....

2.2ms I'm guessing is down to 454hz

If you look at the transient loss page I stated that you need to mod the xml to go above 30ms.
Last edited by Tim Petherick on Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby botus99 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:45 pm

REALLY interesting Tim! Any chance you can share how you came to that conclusion? I believe you, but I'm also curious :lol:

On a side note, I LOVE the sound of Nebula pres, cabs, and EQs with the 50ms Timed Kernels! But only recently have I started using 20ms-30ms Timed Kernels to save CPU, and the inaccurate bass is there but I wasn't sure why. This thread is getting some gears rolling in my head!

I've also noticed that 10ms is enough for compressors. Maybe I'm nuts here, but I also thought that lowering the kernels to, say, 1ms would make fast attack/release compressors behave "quicker" while using the 10ms kernels would be more accurate in terms of the tone that a compressor gives. Anyone have any other observations/opinions on timed kernels with compressors?
Last edited by botus99 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby Tim Petherick » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 pm

Well I don't know for sure....

I'm assuming that's all.

Hz is cycles per second so you get two cycle's in 500ms(0.5sec) 250ms(0.25sec) would be 4hz. 100ms would be 10hz.
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby botus99 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:57 pm

Ah gotcha :mrgreen: Didn't know if there were outside tests involved, but the theory makes sense!
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby Tim Petherick » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:01 pm

Yes,

So it makes sense that really 50ms on a eq is going to get you most of the way. 100ms is handy if you want accuracy down to flapping speakers land!
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby ngarjuna » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:11 pm

Scottxx wrote:For example, in normal mode in a Cabinet program its says 2 ms on first Kernel; going in TIME mode without touching ms. Do you say it is enough? I think just going to TIMED without touching ms the sound is improved.

Considering the input from several very knowledgeable and experienced developers contrasted with your findings, I have a theory:
what you liked instantly about the TIMED instances (with very low rate) is exactly what people are warning you is a possible effect of TIMED programs: low rolloff. If a track is a little muddy and you roll some of that mud off it will sound night and day 'better'.

Only because you're preferring settings that the devs are saying pretty explicitly will roll off the lows (unless I'm misunderstanding their replies which is possible).
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Re: Timed mode how much ms?

Postby RJHollins » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:22 am

I don't have much of the science behind it ... yet ...
but, when I look to test TIMED mode compared to 'original', I 'presupposed' that matching the same ms value would be a reference point.

What I thought I understood ... the original ms value is matched to the length of the sample used ... settings below that value would contain less than the full waveform, thereby modifying the freq spectrum [rolloff]. Using values higher than the original sample [in TIMED mode] would be a needless waste of CPU ... am I wrong with this thinking ?
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