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Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

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Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby russianpolecat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:45 pm

So, getting that 60’s sound (I’ll include early 70’s as well because a lot of that gear was still being used). Or getting that ‘vintage’ sound – however you want to think of it. I just love the sound of those records. It’s not about nostalgia or anything like that, it’s just an aesthetic thing. Anyway, a lot of the esoteric (left field) gear that we get access to with Nebula has it’s origin’s in this era, and as a general ethos, Nebula is perfect for getting as close as possible ITB.

In case you’re wondering about specifics, I’m talking about this kind of thing -

http://vimeo.com/7451942 (48 sec’s onwards - from when the drums come in)

So, I think it’s a combination of –

Microphones. Classic mics U47/RCA 77 etc. (Henry for that)

Valve desks/pre’s etc. (good choice here, 8014 desk, Bogen, REDD pre’s – plenty of options)

Plate reverbs and echo chambers (EMT140…not sure about echo chambers)

Tape, tape and more tape (R2R including probably the Ampex collection that’s just been released. Tape compression and so on).

Kevin Augunas from Fairfax recordings talks a lot about predominantly using passive EQ...I don't really know much about that though.

But, it’s not just Nebula stuff. It’s also things like -
Room sounds (as opposed to 4646 mics on the drums for instance). In my case, I have a bedroom setup – I don’t have access to the acoustics of Abbey Road! But, I do have Abbey Road 60's and Vintage drums (by Native Instruments) – so it’s mono overheads, stuff like that.

Any ‘chain’ recommendations that people use to get a certain vintage sound? Or other tips generally…
Ta in advance!

Chris
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby babiuk » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:21 pm

Stuck on this topic! :D

At work now, I'll write tonight.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby david1103 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:00 pm

Very interesting topic!

Just to get the ball going, I think we need to start at the beginning of the sounds journey in the computer world, the actual ADC.

Check out these sound examples:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-sho ... otout.html

It's subtle, but the fireface has an lack of clarity vs the mytek.

My preference for the best in hi-fi 60/70s sound would be:

John Barry - The Ipcress File
Riz Ortolani - Cannibal Holocaust

Both of these have an incredible *clarity* as well as warmth.

I think Nebula is one of the only plug-ins that could retain that clarity, but maybe only the lucky users of high end ADC's are going to have that to start with?

I think the 60/70's is a strange kind of 'hi-fi/lo-fi' sound, rich and organic. If we don't start out with incredible digital captures we could end up with a 'lo-fi/lo-fi' result using Nebula.

Not sure if that input is relevant, I was thinking aloud :)
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby russianpolecat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:13 pm

babiuk wrote:Stuck on this topic! :D

At work now, I'll write tonight.
Looking forward to your contribution sir! The stuff on your soundcloud page is the closest I've heard so far (to the sound that I'm after).

Chris
Last edited by russianpolecat on Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby russianpolecat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:30 pm

david1103 wrote:Very interesting topic!

Just to get the ball going, I think we need to start at the beginning of the sounds journey in the computer world, the actual ADC.

Check out these sound examples:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-sho ... otout.html

It's subtle, but the fireface has an lack of clarity vs the mytek.

My preference for the best in hi-fi 60/70s sound would be:

John Barry - The Ipcress File
Riz Ortolani - Cannibal Holocaust

Both of these have an incredible *clarity* as well as warmth.

I think Nebula is one of the only plug-ins that could retain that clarity, but maybe only the lucky users of high end ADC's are going to have that to start with?

I think the 60/70's is a strange kind of 'hi-fi/lo-fi' sound, rich and organic. If we don't start out with incredible digital captures we could end up with a 'lo-fi/lo-fi' result using Nebula.

Not sure if that input is relevant, I was thinking aloud :)
I agree completely. It's a myth that the stuff recorded in the 50's/60's/70's is 'low-fi'. If it was then people wouldn't get so 'sweaty' over some of the gear that was used :D

I read somewhere on gearslutz, that if you listen to the original trks from St Pepper or whatever, they are as clean and as Hi fidelity as you can get. They're pristine. It's all the sub-mixing that had to go on that further coloured the sound, multiple passes through EQ, Compression etc., so I think that is also part of it.

You can see that from the stuff the aforementioned Kevin Augunas does at Fairfax recordings. He pretty much uses an all vintage chain, and yet it sounds really 'clean' (for the most part - the vid I posted above sounds like there is a lot of processing including tape compression maybe, compression generally etc.).

But in terms of the AD converters etc. yeah, you have to start with as good as you can get, most certainly. I have an RME Babyface and the DAC is okish on that, but the pre and the ADC I don't particularly like. So, I have a custom made valve pre to improve things, plus I'm thinking of upgrading to a Mytek for ADC.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby russianpolecat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:09 pm

Another thing that might be relevant is that a lot of that stuff seems to generally have a 'darker' sound (as much as anything because of the amount of ribbon mics that were used? I dunno). I personally think that the top end of a lot of modern records is nauseatingly over-hyped.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby babiuk » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:58 pm

Cool topic!

I´ll try to put my cent but I´m not a pro and my setup is home too. Apart from this I have a band and we use to record in a so good studio (not mine) with all gear from 50s and 60s and everything is made as they did it in 60s. So I try to learn something from this times.

In first place I´ll recommend Michael´s r2r, apex, tb+, bogen and eric's langevin desk. I use to pass every track by several instances of that presets, so many times.

I´ll write more later
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby babiuk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:27 am

Posting failure
Last edited by babiuk on Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby babiuk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:31 am

I just wrote a long post but the system didn´t allow to post it, :(

The message was that the post have to be approved by a moderator, what a strange thing...

Well, I´ll try to post it again in two parts:
Last edited by babiuk on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting that 'vintage' 60's/70's sound with Nebula...

Postby babiuk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:32 am

´First at all, I assume that this topic is about trying to get the closet 60s sound using nebula, not just a 60s taste or flavour added to some music. So I´ll try to help from my experience and years searching in this specific matter.

Well, some thoughts about this:

- We can not pretend to get a 60s sounding record from a modern band or creator playing modern music. It´s a kind of aesthetic thing. 50s and 60s music are styles of music, styles of playing and singing and styles of sounding. Imagine a nu-metal band travelling in a time machine to 1955 at Sun Records and recording a song. It´s impossible that the result looks like a 50s record, it could have a vintage flavour or similar but anybody could say that it´s a 50s record.
So the first step is that you should try to do 50s/60s kind of music for getting a close 60s/50s sound..

- In order to get a close 60s sound we'd have to record in rooms playing together with leakage in vintage mics, using real vintage instruments and amps, and all vintage tube gear, with the specs from
that era(and not today's specs). This is very clear and a true, but this scenario is so hard to get too, if not impossible, at least for no rich guys like me.
So we have to use our equipment trying to recreate the recording proccess from then in the best or closet way we can do it.
For instance: If you use Abbeyroad 60s drums VSTi(which is amazing) you can use just the room mic, muting the rest. This way, sending every instrument(snare, toms, cymbals...) to room mic with the level you choose, you can get a good recreation of a drum playing in a room.

It would be nice if we could use the same room microphone from this VSTi for using with all the instruments, for getting a set of tracks like if they were recorded in the same room, isn´t it? This is something I have been trying to solve with different ways. I used some reverb plugins which allow me to positionate in a virtual room the mics and the sources(instruments), trying to recreate a scenario of all musicians in the same room playing at the same time. But my experience was no so good as expected. Altiverb allows you to do that better than the rest, using early reflections for getting roomish sound, but (at least) I have not found a real succes. It´s something I'm always investigating.
Anyway Room Hunters for Nebula is a lib which can be useful in this matter. Its sound is amazing, really. I just tried the demo and I like it, I have to look it deeper.
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