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Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby young.baws » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:43 am

Actually, a few months ago I was reading a lot about these tweaks.. But I did not have enough time to experiment.

I remember some one saying that the transient were somewhat lost with the freq. mode. Anyway I thought it wasn’t 100% true.

Then I had a quite big mixing session. I’ve used nebula for the EQ, tapes & pres (normal freq mode). No other plugin was used for the EQ. (Comps were from Waves+Brainworkx Vertigo, Reverb from Altiverb).

I’ve bounced I don’t know many times to EQ my tracks (Logic’s bounce in place+freezing,..)

The final mix was of an exceptional quality!!! (clean, defined, wide, just nice to hear, no digital zzszszszzsss if you know what I mean), thanks to Nebula!

But unfortunately, there was something missing. THE PUNCH! Especially from the drums.

Seeing this tutorial motived me to "clean kernel timed" all my pre+EQ. The sound is just better for me.

Peace!
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby tekniq » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:01 pm

I took the two Example Flac files and imported them into a 88khz 24bit Cubase Project.

then I Phase flipped one signal.

The result you should be able to hear is the difference between the two files (one file phase flipped deletes all the other frequencies that are exactly the same, leaving only those frequencies that differ and dont have a counterpart that was flipped to cancel them out).

I wasnt able to hear anything. There is practical no difference in timed vs freqd in those two flac bongo loops or I did something wrong.

the graph proved what I "wasnt" hearing: (its below the - 60 db range..)
http://www.abload.de/img/unbenannts9rlz.jpg

I hope this has something to wi th the example files. If not then it shows how quickly peoples minds can be manipuilated - in the audio world thats a serious problem I often collide with myself.

regards
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby young.baws » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:28 pm

tekniq wrote:There is practical no difference in timed vs freqd in those two flac bongo loops or I did something wrong.


Yeah this is what I'm talking about. it is subtle man.
It's more like dynamic feel than I radical difference of sound.

Can I ask you what type of monitors are you using?

Peace
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby tekniq » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:20 pm

its below -60 db I dont really think its noticeable.

I use the HS80 from yamaha..

maybe you have an example where the difference is more in the audible area about -30 db or so

from -60 db to 0 db - thats even too much dynamic for opera I guess. I dont think anyone hears this...

but in case you dont believe me, I recorded a 2 bar audio loop: first at -60 db then at 0 db volume.

http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/6427364/file.html

and the 88khz wav download for analyzing:
http://www33.zippyshare.com/v/69134244/file.html

now tell me that dynamic is audible?! I mean isnt this even below the dithering frequency?

--

but maybe with another sample or another Nebula effect - the change of Freqd versus time is more present..

I am still struggling to find a difference.. but I have not so much experience and not the biggest library anyway ^^ I guess using it on richer audio material could also be helpful for a comparison..
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby voidar » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:20 pm

Over here the tutorial files null down to below -90dB. Being 16 bit files this puts it right at the minimal dynamic range and you can actually hear the quantification noise if you pull it up.

On another note, based on what I see under a scope I would NOT use TIMED for the clean kernel at all. You get these ugly side-band distortions.

Try it yourselves.
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby RJHollins » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:54 am

Hi GANG !

Running into a bit of confusion with regard to settings on the KERN page.

Here's whats happening.

I have a modified NEBULAReverb. I load PC&S Millennium PREAMP [44.1].

When I first look at the FREQD timing 'CLEAN' & 'EVEN' both display 50 ms.

I then click the 2 arrows over to TIMED side, and adjust those values to 50 ms.

I then switch the display over to the MAIN window.

NOW ... after playing audio ... if I go back to the KERN page, the original FREQD times have changed :o

Why is that :?: I tried rematching the TIMED settings, and again, the FREQ times change again !?!?

So, the question Be ... whats going on? What is the correct setting I should be using ???

Thanks for any insight, clarification.
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby Cupwise » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:34 am

i don't quite understand what you're really saying here. you say you switch to timed mode. then you leave kern and come back and the freqd lengths have changed? but then you 're-match' the timed mode lengths? why would you be re-adjusting the timed mode lengths if they haven't changed? you want them at 50ms right?

i don't know if i'm just misunderstanding you or what, but i'll just go ahead and say that if you want to be using timed mode, and you have it set at the length you want, and you are set so that you're actually using timed mode, then whatever happens to the freqd length doesn't matter- because you aren't using it.

is that what you're asking?
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby RJHollins » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:25 am

Ahh Cupwise ...

Yes ... I wanted to match the TIMED ms to what the library defaulted to in the FREQD setting.

You last sentence was exactly it!

THAT's what was confusing. The FREQD loaded in 50ms, I properly switch to TIMED [clean,even] setting those to the same 50ms ... all working fine .... only to come back and see that the FREQD values were now different.

I now clearly understand that 'those' values are NOT in use ... but it honestly threw me a curve that deemed to seek clarification.

I know you have dug deeper into the workings of NEBULA, and very much appreciate your response to my moment of confusion :D

I've had a chance to read information regarding TIMED and FREQD processing that concurs with the audio results. Thanks for clarifying the particulars off how the KERN page settings are wired in.

Sincerely.
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby Cupwise » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:56 pm

honestly, it is kind of weird though. you're saying that even though you're only touching the 'timed' length, for some reason the 'freqd' length changes after you do, and then switch pages and come back. ?

you definitely don't want to then go and change timed again to match whatever freqd jumped to. if freqd is first set at 50ms when you load the program, that's what you want to set and keep timed at. then you switch so that you're actually using timed mode, for the 2 kernel sets (clean and then either even or odd). your cpu use goes up, and that's that. as long as the timed value isn't changing i would say you're ok. but it is weird that the freqd value changes.

what does it change TO?
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Re: Video Tutorial Online! Switching To TIMED Kernels

Postby david1103 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:35 pm

There is a funny little bug, sometimes when you change a kernel length, to for example 50ms, save it, come back and its turned into something like 49.7. You change it back, save again and eventually it sticks to the right number. Sometimes changing TIMED effects FREQD for no good reason, and vice versa.

This is annoying, but i doubt it effects the sound much having a few ms difference in kernel length, all a bit odd, hope it gets fixed!
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