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64bit vs 32bit....again!

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64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby richie43 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:18 pm

I have had a few people try to explain this to me but I am still unclear. I think I need to refine my question. I understand that 64bit apps can utilize the available ram in a 64bit OS. But I consistently have much better performance with 32bit Nebula in 32bit Reaper on Windows 7 64bit. In fact, even in 32bit, I have never even come close to running out of ram. I will get CPU overload on my quad when I have too many Nebula instances, but never a ram issue. So where is there an advantage for me to run a 64bit Nebula in a 64bit Reaper? Thanks in advance!
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:48 pm

In your case I can't see any advantage at first sight since you're getting a better performance with a 32-bit/32-bit/64-bit setup.

This is the opposite in my case. I can't mix in a 32bit/32bit/64bit setup anymore, there's always something wrong (crashes, hangs, etc.). The most stable and reliable system/setup I've ever had is this (even comparing to XP): Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate + REAPER 64 bit + Nebula 64 bit.
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby richie43 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:51 pm

Mercado_Negro wrote:In your case I can't see any advantage at first sight since you're getting a better performance with a 32-bit/32-bit/64-bit setup.

This is the opposite in my case. I can't mix in a 32bit/32bit/64bit setup anymore, there's always something wrong (crashes, hangs, etc.). The most stable and reliable system/setup I've ever had is this (even comparing to XP): Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate + REAPER 64 bit + Nebula 64 bit.


Thanks Mercado. This may be alot to ask, but are you familiar with tweaking the xml file for better performance for 64bit? Maybe you could help me out....?
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:53 pm

richie43 wrote:
Mercado_Negro wrote:In your case I can't see any advantage at first sight since you're getting a better performance with a 32-bit/32-bit/64-bit setup.

This is the opposite in my case. I can't mix in a 32bit/32bit/64bit setup anymore, there's always something wrong (crashes, hangs, etc.). The most stable and reliable system/setup I've ever had is this (even comparing to XP): Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate + REAPER 64 bit + Nebula 64 bit.


Thanks Mercado. This may be alot to ask, but are you familiar with tweaking the xml file for better performance for 64bit? Maybe you could help me out....?


There's no difference between my 64bit/32bit xml files hehe they're exactly the same (well, the ID is different).
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby richie43 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:01 pm

I guess my question is can you help me tweak my xml to optimize my performance? If not, that's cool, but I thought that you might be able to help.
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:37 pm

richie43 wrote:I guess my question is can you help me tweak my xml to optimize my performance? If not, that's cool, but I thought that you might be able to help.


This is my xml file:

<MASTER>
<MAGIC> o010 </MAGIC>
<DATAPATH> H:\Nebula3 Pro\ </DATAPATH>
<PROGRAMSUBPATH> Programs/ </PROGRAMSUBPATH>
<VECTORSUBPATH> Vectors/ </VECTORSUBPATH>
<SETUPSUBPATH> Setups/ </SETUPSUBPATH>
<CACHESUBPATH> Temp/ </CACHESUBPATH>
<SKINSUBPATH> Skins/ </SKINSUBPATH>
<SETUPROMNAME> Rom.xml </SETUPROMNAME>
<WORKBUFFER> 131072 </WORKBUFFER>
<THREADS> 1 </THREADS>
<THREADSMINDIM> 0 </THREADSMINDIM>
<HDIMMAX> 10 </HDIMMAX>
<FORCOLUMN> 32 </FORCOLUMN>
<SERVERADDRESS> . </SERVERADDRESS>
<SERVERPORT> 6000 </SERVERPORT>
<DICTIONARYROMNAME> Rom.xml </DICTIONARYROMNAME>
<DICTIONARYSUBPATH> Dictionaries/ </DICTIONARYSUBPATH>
<FIXEDQUALITY> 0 </FIXEDQUALITY>
<METERTYPE> 6 </METERTYPE>
<OTIMED> 5 </OTIMED>
<OFREQD> 11 </OFREQD>
<PROGRAMRATE> 2000 </PROGRAMRATE>
<EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY> 1 </EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY>
<FORCEOFFSET> 1500 </FORCEOFFSET>
<LTIMED> 10000 </LTIMED>
<LFREQD> 7000000 </LFREQD>
<GUIRATE> 30000 </GUIRATE>
<HDIM> 10 </HDIM>
<BPMDEFAULT> 98000 </BPMDEFAULT>
<AHEADLENGTH> 1500 </AHEADLENGTH>
<SCANBOOT> 1 </SCANBOOT>
<AUTOTHREAD> 0 </AUTOTHREAD>
<FASTBOOT> 1 </FASTBOOT>
<RATECONVERSION> 7000000 </RATECONVERSION>
<FONTCOLOUR> 0 </FONTCOLOUR>
<SKINNAME> 01_LITE_MIX.N2S </SKINNAME>
<NODROP> 0 </NODROP>
<LOADERPRIORITY> 2 </LOADERPRIORITY>
<MODE> 1 </MODE>
<DSPBUFFER> 2048 </DSPBUFFER>
<MIDISTSMIX1> 176 </MIDISTSMIX1>
<MIDICTRMIX1> 127 </MIDICTRMIX1>
<MIDISTSMIX2> 176 </MIDISTSMIX2>
<MIDICTRMIX2> 127 </MIDICTRMIX2>
<MIDISTSMIX3> 176 </MIDISTSMIX3>
<MIDICTRMIX3> 127 </MIDICTRMIX3>
<MIDISTSMIX4> 176 </MIDISTSMIX4>
<MIDICTRMIX4> 127 </MIDICTRMIX4>
<MIDISTSMIX5> 176 </MIDISTSMIX5>
<MIDICTRMIX5> 127 </MIDICTRMIX5>
<MIDISTSMIX6> 176 </MIDISTSMIX6>
<MIDICTRMIX6> 127 </MIDICTRMIX6>
<MIDISTSMIX7> 176 </MIDISTSMIX7>
<MIDICTRMIX7> 127 </MIDICTRMIX7>
<MIDISTSMIX8> 176 </MIDISTSMIX8>
<MIDICTRMIX8> 127 </MIDICTRMIX8>
</MASTER>


What's the common buffer size for your projects? 512, 1024, 2048?
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby richie43 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:56 pm

Well, I have my DSPBUFFER set at max. I understand that this makes it easier to work with with the trade-off for higher latency, which doesn't matter since I don't track with Nebula. Am I right?
Secondly, I don't have a "for column" entry. What is this?
My GUI Rate is set much higher-79999, which is higher than yours. And my BPMDEFAULT is higher as well, it is at 120000. Michael Angel helped me tweak the xml, which made many improvements, but this was before I upgraded to the server version. So what am I missing? What is the "for column" entry? Should I tweak this xml further. I am sending it as an attachment as well, if that helps. Thanks again Mercado. You continue to help me so much with this Nebula world!
Attachments
Nebula3 Reverb.xml
(2.01 KiB) Downloaded 68 times
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:12 pm

Well, I have my DSPBUFFER set at max. I understand that this makes it easier to work with with the trade-off for higher latency, which doesn't matter since I don't track with Nebula. Am I right?


You're partially right :)

It does matter because higher latency takes more CPU cycles (probably as much as any other critical process in a DAW). For instance, mixing at 4096 doesn't really help since you're trading CPU vs CPU which is just plain wrong. The best compromise in my system with Nebula is (for mixing, not tracking): 2048 DSPBUFFER and 512 buffer size. I've done tons of tests here (and in many other systems with different setups) and 8192 DSPBUFFER + 4096 buffer size is just a waste of CPU and it doesn't really help on modern CPU's like i3, i5 and i7.

Secondly, I don't have a "for column" entry. What is this?


This is one of those "hidden" parameters to tweak Nebula further. It just defines the amount of columns in the Browser.
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby richie43 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:32 pm

I always thought the the more I raised my DSPBUFFER and Reaper buffer I would save CPU cycles, not increase. I will lower them to values similar to yours and see how my performance compares. I have a Q8400 quad core, not a "modern" i series. It is a huge upgrade from my former dual-core, and I couldn't afford an "i" computer. That's next, someday! Thanks Mercado, you never cease to amaze me with your willingness to help!
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Re: 64bit vs 32bit....again!

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:35 pm

richie43 wrote:I always thought the the more I raised my DSPBUFFER and Reaper buffer I would save CPU cycles, not increase. I will lower them to values similar to yours and see how my performance compares. I have a Q8400 quad core, not a "modern" i series. It is a huge upgrade from my former dual-core, and I couldn't afford an "i" computer. That's next, someday! Thanks Mercado, you never cease to amaze me with your willingness to help!



You could try it with a simple project with let's say, 10 nebulas using any AlexB console inputs (these programs are good for stress tests since they use all available kernels), at different buffer sizes and DSPBUFFER values. I'm pretty sure you'll be amazed by the results :) (I was!)
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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