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room simulation positioning mic and sources

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room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby babiuk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:34 pm

I know this is maybe offtopic, but maybe one of you can show me a direction to go.

I´m wondering about getting a emulation of a virtual room recording session using some plug which allows me to position mic and sources into a same room.
I tried Room Hunters and the sound is fantastic(I´ll use it for other tasks) but it´s not exactly what I´m looking for because you cannot select positions all along the room.
Do you know a way for getting that? Maybe here with nebula tools?

I posted this question on other thread in the forum too:
http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/index.php?f=8&t=17250&p=41237&hilit=wetting&rb_v=viewtopic#p41237
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby Mplay » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:34 pm

I'd be interested in more rooms as well.
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby mr.tele » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:15 am

Mplay wrote:I'd be interested in more rooms as well.

+1! Wouldn't it be great if someone could sample Abbey Road's rooms and chambers for Nebula? :shock: I'm pretty sure they wouldn't allow it, though.
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby mathias » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:24 am

babiuk wrote:I know this is maybe offtopic, but maybe one of you can show me a direction to go.

I´m wondering about getting a emulation of a virtual room recording session using some plug which allows me to position mic and sources into a same room.
I tried Room Hunters and the sound is fantastic(I´ll use it for other tasks) but it´s not exactly what I´m looking for because you cannot select positions all along the room.
Do you know a way for getting that? Maybe here with nebula tools?

I posted this question on other thread in the forum too:
http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/index.php?f=8&t=17250&p=41237&hilit=wetting&rb_v=viewtopic#p41237


there are not much solutions for what you ask for, when i understand you correctly.
there is vienna mir pro, which works only together with vienna ensemble and is quite an investion.
most of the room/hall-plugins that have possibillities to move mics and sources, are limited to two mics and two sources (magix variverb pro hq-rooms, rayspace, for example) and realistic results need a lot of tuning.
room hunters is the most realistic and easy to use option, that i know, but is limited to one room.

rayspace is an interesting concept, but it needs a lot time to get really convincing results. with this plugin you could build one room of your liking and then put it on several busses to mimic different source/mic combinations.
but it is really unpredictibel, when you move things around.

variverb pro from magix is a nice hall plug, with a lot of different hall algorithms. with the hq rooms you can move 2 mics and 2 sources, but the sound-variations are not that realistic.

i demoed ircam spat a while ago, which is expensive like vienna mir, but has some good options to get very realistic room impressions and there is a graphical interface, which allows for moving mic and sources.

it is an interesting subject and i look around for years now, that someone comes up with a good and not too expensive solution, for positioning elements of a mix in a virtual room for mixing.

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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby babiuk » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 pm

thanks a lot, Mathias, interesting reply. The subject is higly relevant for me and I hope that it will be a reality in near future. The drums virtual instruments of the recent years are excellents and very realistic tools so far away from the early ones.

I know viena mir pro but it´s out of mind mainly because it´s just for viena libs.
I didn´t know variberb, rayspace or ircam spat. I´ve been searching about them and I´ll try to demo them.
Variverb looks useful but the demo audio in the web is not very realistic, yes. I cannot find useful info of variverb, I´ll keep on it. About Ircam Spat it looks like surround oriented, and I think it´s so expensive, but anyway do you think it allows you to use mics and sources in that sense I told about?

And about room hunters, I maybe am losing something cos I tried the nebula library demo and (apart from the fantastic sound of it) I don´t see it allows you position mics and sources, I just can play with distance between both and angle. The fact of having just one room is not still a problem for me, so you are telling that you can use Room Hunter(not neb libs) positioning mics and sources?
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby yr » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:42 pm

Try searching online for HRTF IR's- I can vaguely remember a free set floating around. I have no idea where to find them though (or if they were any good).
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby Room Hunters » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:07 am

babiuk wrote:And about room hunters, I maybe am losing something cos I tried the nebula library demo and (apart from the fantastic sound of it) I don´t see it allows you position mics and sources, I just can play with distance between both and angle. The fact of having just one room is not still a problem for me, so you are telling that you can use Room Hunter(not neb libs) positioning mics and sources?


Hello,

In the theater of life you can "move" the source, and you can also choose different microphone pairs/preamp combo.

The microphone pairs are in different areas. But you cannot move one specific microphone pair.

The depth and angle parameters are expressed from the point of view of the microphone pair. (ie, from 3m of the microphone pair with an angle of 15° from the stereo center of the microphone pair).

Be sure to feed the theatre of life with a mono sound on a stereo track.

Feature wise, MIR pro brings you a lot more choices (more rooms, rotation of the instruments, eqs, ...), it is also based on samples.

Spat does sound very good, and is based on algos.

Both are certainly great choices if you are scoring (professionally) for orchestra ...

AFAIK, The theater of life is the only one to have two parameters of a very real sound recording session :
-which electro acoustical chain ?
-And how to set up gain stagging ?

Those features might interest you if you are into pop/rock production.

It is about 40 times more long to sample a source position for the theater of life (with those colors choices), than a traditional IR.

cheers,
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby babiuk » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:30 pm

AFAIK, The theater of life is the only one to have two parameters of a very real sound recording session :
-which electro acoustical chain ?
-And how to set up gain stagging ?

Those features might interest you if you are into pop/rock production.

It is about 40 times more long to sample a source position for the theater of life (with those colors choices), than a traditional IR.


thanks a lot for answering, but I don´t know exactly what you mean with those 2 questions
-which electro acoustical chain ?
-And how to set up gain stagging ?

yes I´m into pop/r'n'r 60s ideas. Maybe the not library plugin is different from neb libraries features?
I´d thank if you could let me know differences between both or how to manage it in order to gat a virtual session positioning workflow.

MIR is far expensive and I´d like to be money strong to it but it´s not the case. And about spat, I don´t understand it perfectly, it doesn´t show a lot of info and I dont know if you can place things inside the room

thans again
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Re: room simulation positioning mic and sources

Postby Room Hunters » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:04 pm

babiuk wrote:thanks a lot for answering, but I don´t know exactly what you mean with those 2 questions
-which electro acoustical chain ?
-And how to set up gain stagging ?


What I meant is those 2 questions belong to a real sound recording session, and the theater of life is - AFAIK - the only option that let you ask those questions as well. (by choosing microphone/preamp combo and setting up the gain staggin to have the right distortion amount)

babiuk wrote:yes I´m into pop/r'n'r 60s ideas. Maybe the not library plugin is different from neb libraries features?


No and the plug in is unlikely to be released due to a non ideal user experience that may lead us to give more support than we have the time for.

babiuk wrote:I´d thank if you could let me know differences between both or how to manage it in order to gat a virtual session positioning workflow.


The main idea is to have different track with different instruments. Each track should be stereo, but the sound feeding the theather of life should be mono.

Then you should clearly hear your source moving in the room by adjusting deth/angle parameters.

So you'll have to tune every parameters of each instance of the plug in to put each source in the place you want. This way you are doing a virtual microphone pair recording.

The other interesting thing is you can choose the microphone pair according to your source sonic properties. You can also drive the preamp so you'll have more harmonic distortion which is great especially on drums.

Maybe you should have a look to the manual :

http://www.roomhunters.net/joomla/index ... &Itemid=92

hope this helps...
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