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New Nebula - Rate?

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New Nebula - Rate?

Postby Yllet » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:10 pm

Hi.

Just downloaded the latest verison of nebula. Is it still recommended to change the rate to above 3000-4000?

/Jon
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:25 pm

I would.

I've found that many programs (essentially anything with a long-ish kernel as I understand it) don't have enough time under the default RATE_CNV setting.

I've asked before, I don't really understand why this isn't higher by default; the programs load a little faster but considering the number of programs that will not convert from 96k to 44.1 in that amount of time (at least on my machine) it seems like it's more trouble than assistance.
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby biomuse » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:13 am

Agreed. I'm starting to think that none of us (aside from the developers) know what this number really means. Is it a conversion QUALITY setting? I.e., time allotted for conversion, must meet a bare minimum which varies according to patch, but beyond which there are diminishing returns? I just don't know how to make sense of the way it gets treated other than that. But in any case it would seem like keeping it higher can only be better in nearly all cases.
Last edited by biomuse on Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby ngarjuna » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:16 am

biomuse wrote:Agreed. I'm starting to think that none of us (aside from the developers) know what this number really means. Is it a conversion QUALITY setting?

Nope. I think it's the amount of time (maximum) of some conversion interval (I'm not sure if that's per kernel or per program or what). But I'm fairly sure that it either works or it doesn't, it's not a quality slider.
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby biomuse » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:21 am

That was my prior understanding of it as well. But why is there a tendency to keep it low then? It's as though this thing behaves differently from other "loading" times; in most cases, how long it takes something to load is simply determined by how large that thing is. So if a small patch is loaded with the RATE CNV value set at 9000, it would take the same amount of time to load regardless of whether RATE CNV is lowered or not, if this is just simple loading time, yes? So then why ever lower it? That's what makes me think there must be something more to it.
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby yewtreemagic » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:50 pm

As I understand it, most of the conservative settings in the MAST page are to enable those with older/slower computers to still make use of Nebula, so the previous low default setting for Rate CNV was tuned for 'fast loading'.

However, Giancarlo made various changes to the defaults very recently, one of which was to increase the default Rate CNV to 350, which so far has been a perfectly adequate upper time limit to convert 96kHz presets to 44.1kHz on almost everything I've tried (basically if you get a flashing symbol next to your converted sample rate it didn't get enough time to perform the full conversion).

As I understand it, increasing it still further does nothing except give the SRC algorithms more time if needed, so I've now left mine at the new default.


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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby yewtreemagic » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:53 pm

I've just remembered the only programs in my Nebula collection that didn't manage to convert from 96kHz to 44.1kHz in the default time - and they were the freeby analogue delays that someone kindly offered to users :ugeek:


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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby biomuse » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:15 am

yewtreemagic wrote:As I understand it, increasing it still further does nothing except give the SRC algorithms more time if needed


Right, but more time to *do what*? That's what I can't get my head around.

As far as I know, telling software to load something looks schematically something like this:

0. Recieve a load command
1. Get the properties of a file, including the number of resources which the file contains to load
2. Load the resources
3. When the number of loaded resources matches the number specified in the properties, the loading is complete
4. Stop loading

So, if it's really a "time limit," then what on earth is this "RATE CNV" number doing? I.e., if it's bigger than is needed to load a file, then what's going on after the file is finished loading? Wouldn't the conversion just stop anyhow? In other words, how does adjusting this value make any conversion last one moment shorter or longer than it would anyhow, unless there's something scalable going on?

I've never seen anything like this and, like most people here, I've been using software since there have been computers. Programmed a bit as well. So I'm suspicious. My brain hurts. :?
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby blandry » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:59 am

:|
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Re: New Nebula - Rate?

Postby giancarlo » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:35 am

it's simple: you convert only programs smaller than x. X is your bar. You could raise the bar and convert ALL programs. It's possible an old computer will take ages for converting a program so you disable conversion lowering the bar.
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