Login

Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Tips & tricks, working results, technical support

Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby marcus67 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:55 am

Perhaps some of you have noticed that Cubase (in my case 5.5) degrades audio on bounces...even in 32/96. Stienber Canada acknowledges this issue, and says that as of yet, there is no way to work around it. I noticed the degradation is worse on batch export bounces, but the problem is also there when doing simple bounces. If you have Cubase, you can test it out yourself by exporting a track and flipping the phase (null test)...the difference is small (under 65 db), but it does take a bit off the sound, takes some "meat off the bone" so to speak, with the original track sounding a bit more analog and beefy (blind testing on a good system makes it noticeable). Rendering tracks also produces the same result, so of course this has implications for my workflow with nebula as there are many bounces in the way I work (and I am not willing to go back to other pugins). Is there a DAW that does not degrade audio like this? Has anyone done a bounce/null test in Reaper? Thanks in advance for you input.
marcus67
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby nino » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:47 pm

I'll try :
http://www.voxengo.com/product/recorder/

If it nulls I'll stick to it!

P.S. I'm also on Cubase...
nino
User Level X
User Level X
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:20 pm

marcus67 wrote:Has anyone done a bounce/null test in Reaper? Thanks in advance for you input.


I have. Renders/conversions sound 100% identical.

Cheers
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby marcus67 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:43 pm

Thanks for the tips....looks like I will have to start using Reaper...the voxengo recorder works great, but it does not sync for me with the cubase start/play button, which is a bit annoying. I guess I can work around that for now....Thanks everyone.
marcus67
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby ngarjuna » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:11 pm

That's really crazy, it's hard to imagine a major DAW admitting that there's a serious problem with the fidelity of their engine without also releasing a fix.

Did they say what the cause was?
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby marcus67 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:41 pm

No he did not, but the guy at Steinberg Germany was more surprised with the problem....but I just tested it on another computer, and it is now getting really strange...the native reverb bounce produced a 100% phase cancellation...nebula and UAD (j bridged) did not, but I am now wondering if the plugin time compensation feature in cubase is the main cause...I failed the blind tests (in unideal listening environment mind you)...but now I am thinking that my previous blind testing may not have been extensive enough (perhaps I just guess right by chance....I only guessed 10 times or so, with 7 or 8 right). But I could not align the phase properly to see if it is a time issue of a degradation issue....anyway, the guy at Steinberg Canada had others call in with the problem, saying that other users noticed it, but that 2 bounces will cancel with each other, but not completely with the original....more testing is required.
marcus67
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby nino » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:12 pm

With this one you can record in sync with daw

http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt
nino
User Level X
User Level X
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:05 pm

Never try to do null tests with reverbs, that won't work. Even if they nulled 100% in one occasion that was just luck because reverbs won't sound the same on each pass, that's just their nature. Try those null tests with something else.
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby marcus67 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:17 pm

Thanks for the link...as for the null tests, they where mostly with nebula eqs, I only used a native cubase reverb for the one test that (perhaps coincidentally ) was the only one to fully null...I also should have mentioned that I am using cubase 64...I should try these tests in 32 as well. Something weird is going on...either degradation or plugin time compensation issues. Either way, there are implications (I like using parallel compression for instance, and would not want to run into phase issues if it is a time compensation thing)
marcus67
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Nebula workflow-DAW audio degredation on bounces (32 bit )

Postby RJHollins » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:36 pm

From what I recall reading ...

I think you will find that NEBULA with NOT 'null'
with itself. I believe that this is by design, as mentioned in a related post.

related links:
http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p6683

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p4426

just a few quick related links ... more with a forum search.
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
RJHollins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:53 pm

Next

Return to Working with Nebula

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests