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Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:58 pm

fuseburn wrote:Just try it. I can reproduce it with Nebula 3 Pro Reverb x86, x64 and Mac OS X (VST) (1.3.467, 1.3.475, no matter)

At every push of SAVE the AHEAD value is divided by the ratio of current samplerate to 44100. That means if you're working on 44.1k, it remains the same (divided by 1).
Let's say you start out with default 1500 value from the XML. Open the XML in Firefox and refresh to see the current values.
Set to 48k, 88k, 96k (no matter, just not 44.1k)
Open MAST page and immediately hit SAVE, don't touch anything. Now refresh Firefox to see the new value of AHEADLENGTH - which shouldn't have changed anyway.

Sure, I started this thread because I thought I found mysterious differences betweeen x86 and x64. Now that we found out that the untouched AHEAD MAST config value was probably changed at every testing step, I have to question my initial statement myself.


Yep, I set it to 1500 in the xml and it shows 0.7ms in the MAST page, good. Then I changed the RATE CNV to 1024 and dragged it back to 2048, i.e., I didn't change it at the end. Then I hit SAVE, removed Nebula and open it again. In the MAST page I read now 0.3ms and in the xml 477. I did all this on a 96kHz project.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby futur2 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:00 pm

giancarlo wrote:it's expressed in milliseconds. It's truncated internally for values grater than 1.5 milliseconds. Don't touch it. There is an hidden issue with that value: samples are truncated at a certain amount of samples, both 44100 and 96000. It means that 96Khz programs have less predelay than 44100 programs. So just keep 1500 and forget about it. I'll try to sort the predelay thingy at a different level, but I can't touch it now. It's not an issue imho if you don't touch things.


from nebulas FAQ:
"What can I do in order to make Nebula operate with no latency?

Nebula (The Dynamic FX version: preamp, eqs, compressors, etc. Not the reverb version!) is real time capable from version 1.2.715. If you set the AHEAD parameter to zero and DSPBUFFER to 16 in the MAST page, you can achieve a latency of 20 samples (that's very close to "zero" latency).
Nebula Reverb (space and time variants"

i have set some of my neb variants to ahead 0, guitar cabs for example. what does that mean for sound quality?

on my reverb version i have a value of 1337 but can't remember if i changed it or if it was default. should i change it to 1500 or does such a small divergency make no difference?

as someone said before this whole settings stuff is pretty confusing and i wonder if it's really necessary to have it like that ;)
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby mathias » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:52 am

as some people already said, this is bringing confusion here.
maybe you can talk about those "special"-themes in pm, so there won't be too much headscratching about things, that normal users don't understand and will get unnecessary headaches from :lol: .

i assume that giancarlo knows what he is doing and have no complaints about nebula soundwise or concerns about audiointegrity.

sure it is good to think about and try to find bugs, when possible............. :)

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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:27 am

a parameter which changes each time you push save is not nice and should be investigated. Open it in bugs. Anyway it doesn't affect consoles, r2r and so on, but the ahead parameter in some compressor (you have less ahead available).
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:57 am

futur2 wrote:
giancarlo wrote:it's expressed in milliseconds. It's truncated internally for values grater than 1.5 milliseconds. Don't touch it. There is an hidden issue with that value: samples are truncated at a certain amount of samples, both 44100 and 96000. It means that 96Khz programs have less predelay than 44100 programs. So just keep 1500 and forget about it. I'll try to sort the predelay thingy at a different level, but I can't touch it now. It's not an issue imho if you don't touch things.


from nebulas FAQ:
"What can I do in order to make Nebula operate with no latency?

Nebula (The Dynamic FX version: preamp, eqs, compressors, etc. Not the reverb version!) is real time capable from version 1.2.715. If you set the AHEAD parameter to zero and DSPBUFFER to 16 in the MAST page, you can achieve a latency of 20 samples (that's very close to "zero" latency).
Nebula Reverb (space and time variants"

i have set some of my neb variants to ahead 0, guitar cabs for example. what does that mean for sound quality?

on my reverb version i have a value of 1337 but can't remember if i changed it or if it was default. should i change it to 1500 or does such a small divergency make no difference?

as someone said before this whole settings stuff is pretty confusing and i wonder if it's really necessary to have it like that ;)


yes that faq is wrong, we'll change it. Anyway most of these parameters will be removed or hidden in future releases. They were useful years ago, when a lot of troubleshooting was necessary. Most of parameters in nebula are double checked with other values and fixed internally under particular conditions. We are taking in account years of troubleshooting, bug fixing and so on.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby fuseburn » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

giancarlo wrote:a parameter which changes each time you push save is not nice and should be investigated. Open it in bugs.


Will do that, thanks, that was all I wanted to hear ;-)

mathias wrote:maybe you can talk about those "special"-themes in pm, so there won't be too much headscratching about things, that normal users don't understand and will get unnecessary headaches from :lol:
...
sure it is good to think about and try to find bugs, when possible............. :)


The last paragraph said it all - would have been quite hard to involve others in the bughunt if we had done this via PM, no ? :D
This way everyone can see now how an initial state of dissatisfaction can turn into a bug which will be fixed, including all steps taken to find the root of the problem - no better promotion effect thinkable 8-)

And now we all now that we have to rely on our ears to find bugs instead of null testing - nice to know aswell !
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:05 pm

no it doesn't change the way nebula sounds and this is the wrong thread for reporting issues on ahead parameter in mast page
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby futur2 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:01 am

giancarlo wrote:
futur2 wrote:
giancarlo wrote:it's expressed in milliseconds. It's truncated internally for values grater than 1.5 milliseconds. Don't touch it. There is an hidden issue with that value: samples are truncated at a certain amount of samples, both 44100 and 96000. It means that 96Khz programs have less predelay than 44100 programs. So just keep 1500 and forget about it. I'll try to sort the predelay thingy at a different level, but I can't touch it now. It's not an issue imho if you don't touch things.


from nebulas FAQ:
"What can I do in order to make Nebula operate with no latency?

Nebula (The Dynamic FX version: preamp, eqs, compressors, etc. Not the reverb version!) is real time capable from version 1.2.715. If you set the AHEAD parameter to zero and DSPBUFFER to 16 in the MAST page, you can achieve a latency of 20 samples (that's very close to "zero" latency).
Nebula Reverb (space and time variants"

i have set some of my neb variants to ahead 0, guitar cabs for example. what does that mean for sound quality?

on my reverb version i have a value of 1337 but can't remember if i changed it or if it was default. should i change it to 1500 or does such a small divergency make no difference?

as someone said before this whole settings stuff is pretty confusing and i wonder if it's really necessary to have it like that ;)


yes that faq is wrong, we'll change it. Anyway most of these parameters will be removed or hidden in future releases. They were useful years ago, when a lot of troubleshooting was necessary. Most of parameters in nebula are double checked with other values and fixed internally under particular conditions. We are taking in account years of troubleshooting, bug fixing and so on.


no disrespect giancarlo, but the FAQ is really something that should be accurate. besides the forum it's the first resource for information.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:18 pm

agreed
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