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Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

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Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby fuseburn » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:54 pm

Hi everybody,

Recently I stumbled over this: No matter what I'm trying, I can't get the x86- and the x64 version to sound identical. Try it yourself: Open up some Reverb program like the EMT140 96 02s demo (differences are more obvious in reverb tails, but this relates to every program, EQs, consoles etc.) in both versions and switch between both instances. Even with identical values in the MAST page (don't forget to hit save and then offline-online that particular instance to have it reload the new values), there's still some sligt difference left - The x86-version sounds better.

While doing this test I noticed very weird behaviour when changing AHEAD: in x86 it's alright, But in the x64-version the value seems to be halved upon saving AND you have to enter twice the value to hear identical results. That means to get the equivalent to 0.9 ms AHEAD in x86, you have to enter 4x the value (3.6 ms) in x64, so it'll show 1.8 ms upon reinstantiation. Then it sounds like 0.9 ms

Even more confusing is that different plugin versions sound different aswell. I went back to 1.3.467 on both x86 and x64, because after installation of 1.3.475 my session sounded unsatisfyingly different.

What I don't get either is: Why don't 2 instances of nebula with identical programs - meaning 2x x64 or 2x x86 with R2R or a console) - null out ? The difference signal is always down at -40 till -70 and it sounds like the program rate intervals are not synced (Overtones/distortion). That means you can't even verify if your plugin processing sounds just like the freeze you did 3 days ago, let alone the things I'm talking about in here (comparing x86 vs x64). Why is that ?
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:49 pm

same version?
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby fuseburn » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:24 pm

Yeah, I cross-compared several versions and I couldn't find a match which would null. No matter if it's 1.3.467 x86 vs. 1.3.475 x64 or same version on both platforms.

And I Just found out that the AHEAD-value seems to be halved in the x86 version aswell. So even if you don't change AHEAD but maybe only RATE CNV, AHEAD is half the value after next offline-online cycle.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:28 pm

try to switch completely the configuration file....
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby fuseburn » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:11 pm

Well, I tried that, sort of. Comparing both XMLs in the text editor, entering identical values where they differed.
However, that didn't really change anything. And if not even 2 identical instances with the same program and same configuration null out, how should anything else manage that ;-)
I tried turning ghost mode on and off, even checked if REAPERs Anticipative processing changes anything, but they just don't null.
Is there any reason within the algorithm why 2 renders of the same track on the same spot shouldn't sound identical ? Artificial randomness somewhere ?
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby ngarjuna » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:51 pm

I can definitely confirm fuseburn's results, trying to null MBV program using Reverb and Regular (all on default other than RATE_CNV) I'm seeing that they null down to about -50.

That doesn't necessarily concern me, I only use the Reverb plugin going way back (that's just my habit/workflow) and I'm quite happy with the sound I get from Nebula...but it is curious.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:54 pm

ngarjuna wrote:I can definitely confirm fuseburn's results, trying to null MBV program using Reverb and Regular (all on default other than RATE_CNV) I'm seeing that they null down to about -50.

That doesn't necessarily concern me, I only use the Reverb plugin going way back (that's just my habit/workflow) and I'm quite happy with the sound I get from Nebula...but it is curious.


this is normal. Reverb version features a longer tail
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby giancarlo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:55 pm

fuseburn wrote:Well, I tried that, sort of. Comparing both XMLs in the text editor, entering identical values where they differed.
However, that didn't really change anything. And if not even 2 identical instances with the same program and same configuration null out, how should anything else manage that ;-)
I tried turning ghost mode on and off, even checked if REAPERs Anticipative processing changes anything, but they just don't null.
Is there any reason within the algorithm why 2 renders of the same track on the same spot shouldn't sound identical ? Artificial randomness somewhere ?


no... apart the assembler code, but it would crash if something is just slighly wrong.

Anyway 2 nebula tracks sound different even if you use the same plugin.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby ngarjuna » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:00 pm

giancarlo wrote:
ngarjuna wrote:I can definitely confirm fuseburn's results, trying to null MBV program using Reverb and Regular (all on default other than RATE_CNV) I'm seeing that they null down to about -50.

That doesn't necessarily concern me, I only use the Reverb plugin going way back (that's just my habit/workflow) and I'm quite happy with the sound I get from Nebula...but it is curious.


this is normal. Reverb version features a longer tail


Ah yeah, that does make perfect sense, thanks.
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Re: Neb 3 Pro and Neb 3 Pro x64 sound different

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:18 pm

fuseburn wrote:What I don't get either is: Why don't 2 instances of nebula with identical programs - meaning 2x x64 or 2x x86 with R2R or a console) - null out ? The difference signal is always down at -40 till -70 and it sounds like the program rate intervals are not synced (Overtones/distortion). That means you can't even verify if your plugin processing sounds just like the freeze you did 3 days ago, let alone the things I'm talking about in here (comparing x86 vs x64). Why is that ?


Because 2 hardware units don't sound the same either, ever. You'd use your ears in this case to verify if your unit is still in good shape. Null tests with Nebula is pointless and a major waste of time man, there are several hundreds of samples per programs and they are not the same on each pass; you can actually verify this by listening the same passage over and over, it just won't sound the same each time. Been there, done that. That's one of the things I like the most about Nebula, even in that it behaves like hardware :)

I have to run some tests to confirm what you say about differences between 32-bits and 64-bits versions but to be honest, I consider it highly unlikely since compiling is a pretty straightforward step after coding and having all the environment set up. In any case, I'll give it a go for fun :)
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