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And More Sample Rate Questions

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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby giancarlo » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:40 pm

yes, that parameter is a sort of bar you are raising. If you raise it completely ALL your programs will be converted. Since the loading process is slower, maybe you are interested in NOT converting all of them. For example many users are NOT converting reverbs.
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby richie43 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:50 pm

I tend to work at 48, but I get the concept. Thanks. So how do I know when the setting is "working"? If I open up a Nebula preset that is at 96, I am working in 48 or 44, and the conversion happens, then the setting is working? I am assuming that there is no particular "sweet spot" for this RATE CNV setting. I am loving the depth of sound these libraries give my music, so the tweaking is fine with me, I am just trying to understand the why and how as much as possible.
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby futur2 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:49 pm

richie43 wrote:
dpclarkson wrote:I have converted just about every library
that I own to 48khz in NAT.
This speeds up the loading-times dramatically,
when you're working at the same sampling-rate.

I would love it if someone could guide me through this process.... Anyone?


i'd rather be interested in this too ;) i have not heard of anyone converting all their libraries successfully so far. more the opposite...
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby giancarlo » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:00 pm

richie43 wrote:I tend to work at 48, but I get the concept. Thanks. So how do I know when the setting is "working"? If I open up a Nebula preset that is at 96, I am working in 48 or 44, and the conversion happens, then the setting is working? I am assuming that there is no particular "sweet spot" for this RATE CNV setting. I am loving the depth of sound these libraries give my music, so the tweaking is fine with me, I am just trying to understand the why and how as much as possible.


if you don't see a blinking arrow in PROG page it means the conversion is perfect. A blinking arrow means that your sequencer is running a rate different than the current preset one (I mean, the LOADED one).
Blinking arrow = troubles.
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby biomuse » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:37 pm

giancarlo wrote:Since the loading process is slower, maybe you are interested in NOT converting all of them. For example many users are NOT converting reverbs.


OK now I'm confused, and I thought I understood this...

So it is an option NOT to convert? What exactly is happening when the conversion doesn't occur? Isn't the patch at the wrong sample rate and won't it sound weird (wrong playback rate)? How can you use an unconverted reverb patch (or can you)?

I thought RATE CNV sets the amount of time available for the conversion, no? I.e., it's a max time limit.
But maybe that's not correct. Because if my understanding is correct, then isn't it a strange parameter to have user-adjustable in the first place?

(I.e., instead of "RATE CNV," shouldn't it be named the "DO YOU WANT TO USE THIS PATCH OR NOT, YOU IMPATIENT FOOL Y/N?" parameter, because if you don't give the vectors enough time to convert, the patch won't work correctly, no?)

I just leave it at 9999, and set LOADER PR to 4 (highest) so that I'm sure loading/conversion always occurs properly, but as quickly as it can. Since there is no point in using a patch if conversion hasn't been completed, no?
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby ngarjuna » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:01 pm

biomuse wrote:
giancarlo wrote:Since the loading process is slower, maybe you are interested in NOT converting all of them. For example many users are NOT converting reverbs.


OK now I'm confused, and I thought I understood this...

So it is an option NOT to convert? What exactly is happening when the conversion doesn't occur? Isn't the patch at the wrong sample rate and won't it sound weird (wrong playback rate)? How can you use an unconverted reverb patch (or can you)?


I wouldn't call it an option so much as a problem; when it fails to convert, it indeed plays at the wrong sample rate and you're likely to get a sound that is quite skewed on the high end from what you're expecting.

I'm not sure if there's a way to do this intentionally but if you were to load up a program which did not have sufficient time to convert (due to the setting of RATE_CNV) and required SRC you'd end up with an improper conversion, often indicated by the blinking arrow between the program and target sample rate readouts.

To be honest, I'm not entirely certain what Giancarlo means and I'm curious as well.

I thought CONV RATE sets the amount of time available for the conversion, no? So it's not actually a "rate," it's a time limit.
But maybe that's not correct. Because if my understanding is correct, then isn't it a strange parameter to have user-adjustable in the first place?


I have never really understood why this is a user tweakable parameter (aside from the fact that during its development there have been many features of Nebula that were exposed under the hood, I'm assuming to assist in development maybe); along those lines, I seriously do not understand why the plugin defaults to 25.00ms when every third party program I've ever bought tells me in the manual to dial it up to at least 3200ms (or higher for reverbs, I've found). Wouldn't it make sense for the RATE_CNV to always be set high enough to allow any Nebula program to convert? Because the only real downside is slightly longer loading times. However the downside of having your RATE_CNV set too low and not knowing it (anyone who hasn't visited the forums is probably in this boat) results in the programs sounding anywhere from weird to bad. Isn't a slight increase in loading times a more acceptable disadvantage to the plugin failing sonically due to a conversion problem?

But anyway, as far as I understand it, your description of the RATE_CNV seems more or less correct; I'm not sure if that's literally what it controls but practically that does seem to be the effect that tweaking this value has.
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby biomuse » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:05 pm

I tidied up my post above with the correct parameter names.

ngarjuna wrote:I have never really understood why this is a user tweakable parameter (aside from the fact that during its development there have been many features of Nebula that were exposed under the hood, I'm assuming to assist in development maybe); along those lines, I seriously do not understand why the plugin defaults to 25.00ms when every third party program I've ever bought tells me in the manual to dial it up to at least 3200ms (or higher for reverbs, I've found). Wouldn't it make sense for the RATE_CNV to always be set high enough to allow any Nebula program to convert? Because the only real downside is slightly longer loading times. However the downside of having your RATE_CNV set too low and not knowing it (anyone who hasn't visited the forums is probably in this boat) results in the programs sounding anywhere from weird to bad. Isn't a slight increase in loading times a more acceptable disadvantage to the plugin failing sonically due to a conversion problem?


+1
Yeah, this is what I'm saying.
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby justinmorell » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:37 pm

As a fairly new Nebula user, and one who really does not understand the details of whatever is going on under the hood, I would just like to say that I would be more than happy to pay double for sample collections in order to have programs at multiple sample rates. While I understand that 96k is the standard in most libraries, and might offer a slight improvement in sound when working with 96k audio, many of us just don't have the CPU resources to handle this stuff. But if we could run at 48k without having to worry about SRC, life would be so much easier. And, given that so many 3rd party Nebula programs are SO reasonably priced, I would be more than happy to pay for the added option!
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Re: And More Sample Rate Questions

Postby biomuse » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:34 am

This has been frequently discussed. I think the major devs are starting to listen...

It's more important for 44.1 than 48, which is a nice clean half of 96K, so the dowsampling should be very accurate.
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